Cinquevalvole makes a very, very good comparison in the Porsche world. The 993 is largely considered to be the last "true" 911, better looks, noise etc. Is it a superior machine technically? No. And its interior is woeful. But its values are rock solid at the moment and 996s are falling like a stone. People generally, not just enthusiasts (though the volumes these cars sold in will always allow the enthusiast market to play a key role in values), want character these days. Not blandness. Solly - with respect, the strength of sterling has nothing to do with the price differential between 355s and 360s in the context of this discussion. If it's cheaper for us to buy 360s, in the usual run of things you would therefore expect 355 prices to drop here. But they're holding now. Perhaps of more relevance is where the steering wheel is. There's a much more limited supply of good, RHD cars. This'll tend to help values, but I believe the trends we are seeing here are likely to apply elsewhere around the globe. In terms of looking for proof of the price diffs between 355s and 360s, you need to look at the used car locator on www.ferrari.co.uk, but also at the Sunday UK press and Ferrari specialists here in the UK. Prices are not quite at parity as yet, but they're very close. By summer, I suspect there'll be some overlap, and later in the year who knows. As a slight aside, the American auto market is very different to the European one. So some of the parallels and assumptions we're making may well not hold. Time will tell, and whatever happens all the cars we're talking about are wonderful machines and long may they continue. PS Anyone familiar with the UK motoring journalist Jeremy Clarkson? He's infamous for selling cars just prior to them holding or even appreciating in value. I.e. he always sells his cars at exactly the wrong time. He sold his 355 GTS last year to buy a Merc SL 55 AMG...
and pretty much regretted it ever since.. I gather it spent more time being fixed than on the road.. I suspect he's part-exing it for his new Ford GT (finally got his name on the list) Regarding pricing and overlapping etc. you have to bear in mind that the RHD 360s were in short supply in the early days and fetched a premium.. now the supply has met demand there's been an adjustment and prices have fallen to match.. However, I think the 360 will always fetch more when compared like-for-like.. Sure, if you find an early high mileage 360 and compare it to a late low mileage F355 they're very close.. but that's not comparing like-for-like.. Ferraris have always been mileage sensitive rather than age-sensitive.. It's only now that high miler 360s are hitting the market, whereas previously they were all sub-10K miles. It's widely accepted that the 348 is worth less than a F355, but a late 348 with say 2000 miles on the clock may fetch more than an early F355 with say 30,000 miles on the clock.. does that mean that F355 prices are flagging ? No. You have to dig a bit deeper to see the reason behind the prices.
well KENSTER 888 you should know im not some 'wanabe punk off the street' as you so succinctly put it by looking at all my past tech representations on this board. Im afraid to say that the level of your posting is somewhat below the standard I would have expected on here but there we go! up to other to make their judgements on this forum. Its always a pleasure when one meets someone with the intelligence to have a reasonable debate and be able to change views. Onto the 348- you dont need to counter attack anything! actually the dealer of which you make the comment' they dont know what they are doing' is a main dealer ( since gone independant ferrari) who have 40 years collective experience. Also please be careful how you respond to posts because on the last one it made it seem that I had written all the nonsense youve come up with!
There are some very good points in the thread!! I own a RHD 355 - worth around 60K. However, I'm buying a second F-car at the moment, a 360. I was surprised to see an abundance of RHD 360 1999-2001 (lowish mileages) around 75K pounds in the UK! This was a pleasent surprise, and with a bit of haggleing It looks like I should be able to get one for 70K. This REALLY made me think. They are completely different types of F-cars for all the reasons explained in this therad. EXACTLY the same as the Porsche 993 and 996 comparision made by Cinq. Basically there seems to be a 'base' value that the car hits, then subsequent models get squeezed against it. For the 993 (in the UK) its about 25-30K, and early 996s have come down to 30K and rest there. For RHD 355 its around 50-60K. I don't know where the trend is going, but its certainly made a 360 a good option for me, whereas 2 yrs ago there was no way. Its all good Ade
I would really like UK people to post examples of prices of 355 and 360 showing only 7% difference. I see top 355's at early £60K's at main dealers and average 360's at unofficial dealers at mid £70K's. I would like a 360 at 355 price + 7% please.
The 348 is a nice car. Not much of a performer. The 355 is one of the greatest cars of all time. Handling, sound, looks, character. SURE I wish it had a bit more power. The 360 is fat and is lacking in character. I was thinking of buying one for a while. I never like the looks of it to much but I am power hungry. After driving the 360 all I know is in the street it's up to the driver. I think the power difference is very small. Unless if you race in a race track it won't matter. And whoever said that Subaru can dance around your 355 all day, I say bring it on. Fifty years from now on when you look back you will see that the 355 was the best of this era.
Here you go; http://www.ferrari-uk.com/frameworks/locator/details.asp?VehicleID=1398 http://www.ferrari-uk.com/frameworks/locator/details.asp?VehicleID=1466
or coupe vs coupe; http://www.ferrari-uk.com/frameworks/locator/details.asp?VehicleID=1397 http://www.ferrari-uk.com/frameworks/locator/details.asp?VehicleID=1466
(ignoring all LHD)The difference on www.autotrader.co.uk seems to be around 15-20% between good 355s ('97-'99) and early (99' -00') 360s. There is one 355 for 66K There is one 360 for 74K .... I make that about 12% at best !! Very reasonable for the 360.... I'm very tempted indeed !! Anyone have any better sources? Ade
True, but not really like-for-like, in so much as.. you're comparing the very last F355 spider, in the right colour, in the right spec (F1 arguable) with a hideous early 360.. (in fact, they were only made 3 months apart).. They're both exceptional, but for different reasons. Try comparing an early Berlinetta with an early Modena in Rosso, or 2 late Spiders and you'll find a good £25K between them still.
look again;the 355 is a B ......., they're both F1 and there's nothing hideous about fly yellow/ nero IMO.
Yes there is, particularly on a 360. Just ask your dealer. Other than white, it's the least-liked colour. The gap between the "average" car hasn't really changed much, just that there are more exceptional cars that you can compare.
No offence but I am afraid that the examples are not fair in my view. You are comparing probably the most expensive 355 in the UK which is also in the right spec and colours which has been sitting for a while unsold and based on the dealer whose selling it must have some room for negotiation versus a yellow 360 which sold very quickly before I could get to see it. BTW, I have seen that 355 and it is totally superb and a wonderful looking example. I would like to buy a red/crema/bordeaux 360 in mint condition with 10000 miles and 3 owners for £74900 from a main dealer.
there is another issue to. The dealers have to hold on to these types of cars for quite some time and i noticed many 360 that are for sale now that were in the market some 6 months ago. So the pricing they are asking at retail is not really a guide as to real world pricing. Indeed just ring up any UK ferrari dealer with a 360 for sale - say 200-2001 vintage and see wht they bid for the car. Many are not buying. In pure retail terms at this moment the price difference is 10pc in trade terms its 7pc now. Wait till september and they will be the same. Look in the sunday times on the back page, there are probably 100 360s for sale and maybe 8 355s just in authorised. Then go to private there are 2 355s and 15 360s. Many of these cars were bought by the new breed of entrepreneurs and many with the help of innovative leasing and some to enthusiasts. It appealled more than ever to porsche buyers for example who previously would not have acquired an f car but these buyers are different to the buyers of ferraris of old. They want the latest thing with more power ectect and thats why there are hundereds of these cars for sale and it will get worse and the huge competition for this sector hots up. what really matters is what a dealers avergae bid will be for a low miles 355 berlinetta say 99 vintage and a low miles 360 99/2000 and if you find a dealer that wants to buy a 360 off you it will be at a large discount to book as they already have so many. In the case of the 355 they will pay more for a top order car as they know they can find more buyers for that than the 360.
355f said: In pure retail terms at this moment the price difference is 10pc in trade terms its 7pc now. Wait till september and they will be the same. So please find me a 360 at the price you mention. 355f said: Look in the sunday times on the back page, there are probably 100 360s for sale and maybe 8 355s just in authorised. Then go to private there are 2 355s and 15 360s. There are 28 360 Modena's for sale and 4 355 on the back page. I am under the impression authorised dealers only sell cars less than 5 years old because of the authorised warranty. I am not totally sure of this but it would explain the reason why there mainly later cars for sale. 355 said: what really matters is what a dealers avergae bid will be for a low miles 355 berlinetta say 99 vintage and a low miles 360 99/2000 and if you find a dealer that wants to buy a 360 off you it will be at a large discount to book as they already have so many. I know dealers will bid £72K for a 360 in red with 20K miles on the clock. A friend just sold his and I wish I had bought it. The main dealer sold that car for £80K in a matter of a week.
For me it all started with Magnum PI and his 308. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better they brought out the 328 which seemed more refined and modern. When they brought out the 348 I used to go downtown to the Ferrari dealership at night and stare at it through the window. When the 355 came out I was instantly in love and acquired everything from the first Road and Track that it was featured in posters etc, etc... When the 360 came out I wanted and kept trying to like it but I can only appreciate it in the right light at the right angle etc. Faster and better engineered but doesn't do it for me. When I bought my 355 I just got bought out of a share position that I had and could have bought any Ferrari but chose the 355. DrewH
You are using a sample size of 1 car to draw a conclusion about overall market conditions? This is ridiculous. Grab 20 random 355s and 20 random 360s, adjusted for mileage, and I bet you come back with a different answer.
In an attempt to work out a level playing field, I checked Ferrari UK site for cars for sale.. and compared : F355 Berlinettas with a manual box. Average mileage: 16,000 Average price £57,600 360 Modenas with a manual box, over 3 years old only. Average mileage 9000. Average price £84,000
What it comes to is this what will a dealer offer for a 99/2000 360 compared to a 355 of same year thats the only way you can have a true comparison.
This is getting boring! Looks like you shd have bought your mates car when it was offered instead of moaning about not being able to find the right car for the right money after the fact..................
Tony, I am not moaning about it, I agree, I wish I had bought it. But it is a real world example of pricing that contradicts some of the views about 360 pricing. I have no axe to grind, I like both 355 and 360. I hope 355f is correct and pricing of 360's do drop. I was also hoping that 355+7% did equal a similar 360. I have yet to see it.
I think the thrust of what is being said is that the gap is narrowing. Not that it is zero right now, nor that it was necessarily easy to find a good pair to highlight the point. The fact that you can actually find pairings to support the view, however, is perhaps an indicator that the theory carries some weight. 6-12mths ago you simply would not have been able to find any pairings like this. In another 6-12mths (IMO), you'll be quids in if you want a 360. The "new age" Ferrari buyer will be getting bored and there'll be a ton of metal on forecourts begging to be bought. I was deliberating selling my 355 recently (off to travel the world, and having money tied up in any car isn't that wise I suspect, though I am seriously reconsidering this idea at present) and a dealer who had never seen my car offered me bloody good money for it within 20 minutes of hearing it might be for sale. He apparently has a number of customers queueing up for good 355s. I'm not convinced that the reaction would have been the same had it been a 360 as, has been pointed out, there isn't exactly a limited supply. Absolutely none of this is trying to say that a 355 is "better" than a 360. It's just discussing used values of cars. BTW, I hear that the approved network is open to aggressive offers from genuine punters. Keep an eye on their stock lists, and once you see a car that's been with them for 4-6 weeks (not just the dog specs that stay this long either), walk in with a suitcase full of fivers and make an aggressive bid. You might be surprised by the answer. Worst case, they can always say no PPS There's no real age limit for cars that the main dealers will hold. I believe you can put Formula warranties on cars up to 15yrs old. Most do, however, seem to like to keep their stock newer than 6yrs old unless the car is something special/easy to sell on.
