Problems with the sales department

lchavet · Oct 2, 2012

First, let me say that my problems with my dealer are limited to the sales department; I have had a great experience with the service department and of course I love the car and, even though I whine a lot in the rest of the post, I am very fortunate to own a 458 Italia.

Old problems:
While I was waiting for my car, I asked several time about the car build status (20, 30 ) and even though I see a lot of people posting update on their car status, my dealer told me that this information isn't available (I wonder how your dealers are getting it!); a bit frustrating but no a huge deal.
Then when my car was delivered, I pointed out a scratch on the windshield; the scratch wasn't huge but it was still pretty annoying on a brand new car. I asked what could be done about it; he told me he would take care of it. It took a bit a time (pretty annoying when you really want to drive your brand new car); then he tells me its done. I get there and it is a 100 times worse: the small scratch had been replaced by a hole about 3 inches in diameter: they had scrapped the windshield to remove as much glass as the scratch was deep. That resulted in a very visible deformation when looking out through that part of the windshield (or looking at the car from the outside). I was told that that was that and there was nothing else that could be done. I asked about replacing the windshield (for the little scratch I wouldn't have cared but now, every time I am sitting in my car I cant help looking at that part of the windshield. The answer was: no one has done it (it was September 2011!) and it would be a terrible idea since removing the windshield and replacing it was sure to result in damage to the car.
A bit latter FNA asked to fill a survey about how the purchasing/delivery experience went; it was a complete waste of time; they simply forwarded my form to my dealer and never contacted me to ask if any of my issues has been addressed!
I kind of gave up on the problem but it has lowered my enjoyment of the car.

New problems:
I havent had to deal with the sales department for almost a year (several time with service) so nothing to complain. Then I decided I would try to consign my 458 Italia so I could switch to the 458 Spyder. The idea was: I cant use my 458 during August so lets try to sell it, if that doesn't work Ill get it back in September and enjoy it again. So the window for selling it was about 5 weeks. That didn't start well: the car didn't get listed for 2 weeks; when I asked about it I was told the person who takes the pictures was out!
I cant be sure but I dont think much was done to try to sell the car (when I came back the car was not in the showroom).
My car was also due for its 1 year service so I ask for the service to be performed and to get my car back. When I went back to get my car they were washing it; I waited a bit and got it back; right away I noticed that the car must not have been detailed as I was told it would be (the interior was dusty; the outside was clearly not waxed); I drove home and since the car had not been dried properly (if you dont dry under the front hood and drive the car, all the water gets out) the car needed to be washed again!
Since then, the sales department is asking me to pay:
$200 for detailing which I was first told had been done at a local detailing shop; once I pointed out that if it had been detailed (which I doubt) it was not done well; the story changed to we did the detailing ourselves.
$630 for 101 points inspection; I have no problem with that in theory expect that during the same stay the car also went through the 1 year inspection which cost $300 and it is not needed if you do the more thorough 101 points inspection. Who think they did both inspections (do you have to check the same thing twice for a car that didnt leave the dealership)? I was charged for the 1 year inspection until I pointed out that the car is a 2012 and I had already paid for it when I purchased the car (so FNA will be paying for it on my behalf); that doesn't change the fact that the same work is being charged twice; I have raised that and ask for the inspection to be $630 - $300.
Also I pointed out that the -10% FCA discount was not applied; I was told that since the price was already a special inter department price at -20% they couldn't do the FCA discount. I have a hard time believing that $630 stands for $787.5 20%! In short, not a very credible explanation.
My request for adjusting the price based on the facts was ignored and 1 week later, I am asked why I havent paid yet!

I am posting here to hear from my fellow Ferrari owners to check if you think I am being unreasonable or the sales department could/should do a better job.

Thanks

2k7997tt · Oct 2, 2012

Your concerns seem valid.

1. I would talk to an authorized Ferrari body shop about the possibility of replacing the windshield. You are not unreasonable to want a perfect windshield on delivery.

2. It doesn't sound like the dealership expended much energy in selling your car. Perhaps there is a logical explanation. Were there multiple 458's in front of you? This is primetime "get rid of your coupe and buy a spider".

3. I think it is fair to want to pay for the work that is done. What does the service manager say?

Have you sat down with dealership manager? I would start here.

RBK · Oct 2, 2012

First of all you should NEVER accept a "damaged" car. FNA should be "personally" contacted with a "picture" of the windshield. Secondly, the service "facts" are what they are and can be determined objectively by getting it all in writing and then "we" can check with our dealers or someone here can review and let you know. "Selling" the car is a different deal and "who knows" the truth/fiction of the dealer's "story". Finally, as with the windshield, it would seem to me you should have pointed out the lack of detailing at the time you went to pick up the car and insisted on seeing the detailer and/or service manager. In my view, you have been very understanding and forgiving to your own deteriment. Best

lchavet said: ↑

First, let me say that my problems with my dealer are limited to the sales department; I have had a great experience with the service department and of course I love the car and, even though I whine a lot in the rest of the post, I am very fortunate to own a 458 Italia.

Old problems:
While I was waiting for my car, I asked several time about the car build status (20, 30 ) and even though I see a lot of people posting update on their car status, my dealer told me that this information isn't available (I wonder how your dealers are getting it!); a bit frustrating but no a huge deal.
Then when my car was delivered, I pointed out a scratch on the windshield; the scratch wasn't huge but it was still pretty annoying on a brand new car. I asked what could be done about it; he told me he would take care of it. It took a bit a time (pretty annoying when you really want to drive your brand new car); then he tells me its done. I get there and it is a 100 times worse: the small scratch had been replaced by a hole about 3 inches in diameter: they had scrapped the windshield to remove as much glass as the scratch was deep. That resulted in a very visible deformation when looking out through that part of the windshield (or looking at the car from the outside). I was told that that was that and there was nothing else that could be done. I asked about replacing the windshield (for the little scratch I wouldn't have cared but now, every time I am sitting in my car I cant help looking at that part of the windshield. The answer was: no one has done it (it was September 2011!) and it would be a terrible idea since removing the windshield and replacing it was sure to result in damage to the car.
A bit latter FNA asked to fill a survey about how the purchasing/delivery experience went; it was a complete waste of time; they simply forwarded my form to my dealer and never contacted me to ask if any of my issues has been addressed!
I kind of gave up on the problem but it has lowered my enjoyment of the car.

New problems:
I havent had to deal with the sales department for almost a year (several time with service) so nothing to complain. Then I decided I would try to consign my 458 Italia so I could switch to the 458 Spyder. The idea was: I cant use my 458 during August so lets try to sell it, if that doesn't work Ill get it back in September and enjoy it again. So the window for selling it was about 5 weeks. That didn't start well: the car didn't get listed for 2 weeks; when I asked about it I was told the person who takes the pictures was out!
I cant be sure but I dont think much was done to try to sell the car (when I came back the car was not in the showroom).
My car was also due for its 1 year service so I ask for the service to be performed and to get my car back. When I went back to get my car they were washing it; I waited a bit and got it back; right away I noticed that the car must not have been detailed as I was told it would be (the interior was dusty; the outside was clearly not waxed); I drove home and since the car had not been dried properly (if you dont dry under the front hood and drive the car, all the water gets out) the car needed to be washed again!
Since then, the sales department is asking me to pay:
$200 for detailing which I was first told had been done at a local detailing shop; once I pointed out that if it had been detailed (which I doubt) it was not done well; the story changed to we did the detailing ourselves.
$630 for 101 points inspection; I have no problem with that in theory expect that during the same stay the car also went through the 1 year inspection which cost $300 and it is not needed if you do the more thorough 101 points inspection. Who think they did both inspections (do you have to check the same thing twice for a car that didnt leave the dealership)? I was charged for the 1 year inspection until I pointed out that the car is a 2012 and I had already paid for it when I purchased the car (so FNA will be paying for it on my behalf); that doesn't change the fact that the same work is being charged twice; I have raised that and ask for the inspection to be $630 - $300.
Also I pointed out that the -10% FCA discount was not applied; I was told that since the price was already a special inter department price at -20% they couldn't do the FCA discount. I have a hard time believing that $630 stands for $787.5 20%! In short, not a very credible explanation.
My request for adjusting the price based on the facts was ignored and 1 week later, I am asked why I havent paid yet!

I am posting here to hear from my fellow Ferrari owners to check if you think I am being unreasonable or the sales department could/should do a better job.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Fiorano57 · Oct 2, 2012

Please tell us your not going to buy your spider from the same dealership?
I fully agree with RBK..I would not have accepted the car unless it was 100% perfect in YOUR eyes.

bkhko · Oct 2, 2012

My new 2012 italia had fine spider scratches on the windshield when it was delivered. Only noticed it a few days after, and once I notified the dealership the service manager apologized profusely and said it was something his team should have caught before delivery.

He offered me 2 options to fix it. 1) to polish using a special abrasive that effectively polishes off 1 micron across the entire windshield. 2) replace the windshield.

Have take his advice, I opted for polishing the windshield, only to find that the result wasn't up to the service managers expectations. We then proceeded to option 2 and replaced the entire windshield.

Althought time consuming (car was in shop for 2 weeks as they needed to courier over a thermo insulated windshield from Italy) but made me fully satisfied that the problem was being addressed. I think in your situation your dealer has provided a sub par service for a premium product. I'd make sure FNA is aware and rectify.

Hope sharing this with you helps...

amenasce · Oct 2, 2012

Your dealer sales department sounds like the typical scumb*g small garage you would have to deal with if you were buying a used Toyota Corolla. I would document as much as possible and write a letter to FNA if talking to the general manager doesnt make it better for you.

McRoswell · Oct 2, 2012

1. Contact FNA
2. I sold my 430 spider to FoA for a 2012 Cali and was not charged anything less alone asked to detail the car.
3. Request permission from FNA to work with another authorized Ferrari dealer. I would only use FoA and Steven Eckoff

Good luck

tuttavelocita · Oct 2, 2012

lchavet said: ↑

First, let me say that my problems with my dealer are limited to the sales department; I have had a great experience with the service department and of course I love the car and, even though I whine a lot in the rest of the post, I am very fortunate to own a 458 Italia.

Old problems:
While I was waiting for my car, I asked several time about the car build status (20, 30 ) and even though I see a lot of people posting update on their car status, my dealer told me that this information isn't available (I wonder how your dealers are getting it!); a bit frustrating but no a huge deal.
Then when my car was delivered, I pointed out a scratch on the windshield; the scratch wasn't huge but it was still pretty annoying on a brand new car. I asked what could be done about it; he told me he would take care of it. It took a bit a time (pretty annoying when you really want to drive your brand new car); then he tells me its done. I get there and it is a 100 times worse: the small scratch had been replaced by a hole about 3 inches in diameter: they had scrapped the windshield to remove as much glass as the scratch was deep. That resulted in a very visible deformation when looking out through that part of the windshield (or looking at the car from the outside). I was told that that was that and there was nothing else that could be done. I asked about replacing the windshield (for the little scratch I wouldn't have cared but now, every time I am sitting in my car I cant help looking at that part of the windshield. The answer was: no one has done it (it was September 2011!) and it would be a terrible idea since removing the windshield and replacing it was sure to result in damage to the car.
A bit latter FNA asked to fill a survey about how the purchasing/delivery experience went; it was a complete waste of time; they simply forwarded my form to my dealer and never contacted me to ask if any of my issues has been addressed!
I kind of gave up on the problem but it has lowered my enjoyment of the car.

New problems:
I havent had to deal with the sales department for almost a year (several time with service) so nothing to complain. Then I decided I would try to consign my 458 Italia so I could switch to the 458 Spyder. The idea was: I cant use my 458 during August so lets try to sell it, if that doesn't work Ill get it back in September and enjoy it again. So the window for selling it was about 5 weeks. That didn't start well: the car didn't get listed for 2 weeks; when I asked about it I was told the person who takes the pictures was out!
I cant be sure but I dont think much was done to try to sell the car (when I came back the car was not in the showroom).
My car was also due for its 1 year service so I ask for the service to be performed and to get my car back. When I went back to get my car they were washing it; I waited a bit and got it back; right away I noticed that the car must not have been detailed as I was told it would be (the interior was dusty; the outside was clearly not waxed); I drove home and since the car had not been dried properly (if you dont dry under the front hood and drive the car, all the water gets out) the car needed to be washed again!
Since then, the sales department is asking me to pay:
$200 for detailing which I was first told had been done at a local detailing shop; once I pointed out that if it had been detailed (which I doubt) it was not done well; the story changed to we did the detailing ourselves.
$630 for 101 points inspection; I have no problem with that in theory expect that during the same stay the car also went through the 1 year inspection which cost $300 and it is not needed if you do the more thorough 101 points inspection. Who think they did both inspections (do you have to check the same thing twice for a car that didnt leave the dealership)? I was charged for the 1 year inspection until I pointed out that the car is a 2012 and I had already paid for it when I purchased the car (so FNA will be paying for it on my behalf); that doesn't change the fact that the same work is being charged twice; I have raised that and ask for the inspection to be $630 - $300.
Also I pointed out that the -10% FCA discount was not applied; I was told that since the price was already a special inter department price at -20% they couldn't do the FCA discount. I have a hard time believing that $630 stands for $787.5 20%! In short, not a very credible explanation.
My request for adjusting the price based on the facts was ignored and 1 week later, I am asked why I havent paid yet!

I am posting here to hear from my fellow Ferrari owners to check if you think I am being unreasonable or the sales department could/should do a better job.

Thanks
Click to expand...

If you are using who I think you are, this isn't the first time i've heard complaints. In fact quite a bit of WA ferrari owners use the dealer in OR instead because they are treated much better down there. I believe they even have an enclosed trailer to pick up and deliver your car.

chris5150 · Oct 2, 2012

Absolutely appualing service, some good advice on the thread, look forward to seeing how it pans out for you.
Its funny isnt it but I have had issues myself, and in many cases it works the opposite to the way it should, ie The customer thinks wow I am spending alot of money here on a pretty high level product, I am sure I will get excellent service, I am sure spending all this they will really look after me & value my business
Sadly it seems that no matter how much the spend is some almost try to make you believe that they are doing you the favour letting you have such a car, and that you should be extremely grateful to them, very how dare you possibly have an issue or complain
Sometimes think the problem is that maybe a certain amount of 'hidden' jealousy from staff at some of these places as they will never be able to afford such a thing, so yes thats well hidden most of the time, but at other times they treat customers with very obvious contempt.
I have always enjoyed better service & felt valued at small owner independents than I have at the bigger main dealers, it just seems to be the way it is nowadays.

lchavet · Oct 2, 2012

Thank you everyone for your very useful advice and the sanity check.

I guess I dropped the ball when my car was delivered and I should have pushed harder on the windshield issue.

I will be contacting the Sales Manager first and see if that helps; if not I'll see if FNA can help.

KINGMONKEY · Oct 2, 2012

lchavet said: ↑

Thank you everyone for your very useful advice and the sanity check.

I guess I dropped the ball when my car was delivered and I should have pushed harder on the windshield issue.

I will be contacting the Sales Manager first and see if that helps; if not I'll see if FNA can help.
Click to expand...

I think they tried to fix the issue and it didn't work,So I believe they know there is a problem. the only thing I could think is its a dealer problem not a factory one.The 458 windshield is $3200 and the dealer may have to spring for it

lchavet · Oct 8, 2012

I have been talking to the Director of Sales and Marketing and we have come to an agreement regarding the service done during consignment.

What’s left is the big one: the windshield.
Here is what he is offering:

With regard to replacing the windshield in your 458 Italia, I would suggest that we pay for the labor to remove and install the new windshield and you pay for the part.
Click to expand...

FYI the cost of the part is $3000 before tax.

Does this seem reasonable?
Should I be paying to replace a windshield that was bad on delivery and the dealer made worse trying to fix it?
If, like I think, it is not reasonable and it is their last offer what should I do?

KINGMONKEY · Oct 8, 2012

lchavet said: ↑

I have been talking to the Director of Sales and Marketing and we have come to an agreement regarding the service done during consignment.

Whats left is the big one: the windshield.
Here is what he is offering:

FYI the cost of the part is $3000 before tax.

Does this seem reasonable?
Should I be paying to replace a windshield that was bad on delivery and the dealer made worse trying to fix it?
If, like I think, it is not reasonable and it is their last offer what should I do?
Click to expand...

Not really.I would be a little firm and reverse that on them.They pay for the part and you pay for the labor

amenasce · Oct 8, 2012

lchavet said: ↑

Does this seem reasonable?
Should I be paying to replace a windshield that was bad on delivery and the dealer made worse trying to fix it?
If, like I think, it is not reasonable and it is their last offer what should I do?
Click to expand...

No. He's basically giving you the middle finger..I don't know how complicated it is to change a 458 windshield, but on my Porsche it took less than 2 hours. Does he know they made the scratch worse? I would escalate that to FNA if after your next conversation with him he still doesn't comply. Tell him that you are really disappointed with the way this has been handled by his team and that you don't believe you should be paying for a new windshield on a brand new car especially when the damage was done by his team. Also, replacing a windshield does not result damage on a car.

Also, i would seriously consider another authorized dealer if you can.

2k7997tt · Oct 8, 2012

Show the windshield to the manager of the dealership. Ask the manager what he/she thinks is fair.

It's not right for any money to come out of your pocket.

Senna1994 · Oct 8, 2012

2k7997tt said: ↑

Show the windshield to the manager of the dealership. Ask the manager what he/she thinks is fair.

It's not right for any money to come out of your pocket.
Click to expand...

+1

dm_n_stuff · Oct 8, 2012

Did you make a notation on the delivery sheet about the windshield? You have service records for the attempted repair?

IF so, go to the owner of the dealership. Show them to him, explain your issue. Don't mess with a sales manager unless the owner is not available.

If they don't respond favorably, schedule a conference call with the dealer's rep and FNA, discuss the issue with them all on the phone.

Seems crazy to me that the dealer is trying to do this on the cheap. They fixed it wrong the first time, then refused to fix it right the second time. Just inexcusable on any new car, be it a Toyota or a Ferrari. I suspect you'd have less trouble making it right with a Toyota dealer, you might bring that to the attention of the Ferrari manager.

And finally, if you've had so much luck with the service folks, why aren't they stepping up and working with FNA to get this resolved at no cost to you?

D

lchavet · Oct 8, 2012

By the way I have been told by both the sales person and the director of sales (who is part owner of the dealership) that the problem with the windshield is barely visible.

So here it is.
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KINGMONKEY · Oct 8, 2012

lchavet said: ↑

By the way I have been told by both the sales person and the director of sales (who is part owner of the dealership) that the problem with the windshield is barely visible.

So here it is.
Click to expand...

I see it that would bother me big time

cka · Oct 8, 2012

you have wasted enough time with the dealer, take this issue to FNA. They must be joking asking you to pay for an item that came damage on delivery.

amenasce · Oct 8, 2012

Since they seem like jokesters, pay them with Monopoly money. What a bunch of clowns.

gurslo · Oct 8, 2012

The way I see it, if I were in the market for your car, I would walk away from it and find an example with out the blemish/story. -or- 1. come to an agreed selling price with you fixing the windshield prior to sale, -or- 2. drop the selling price more to reflect the cost of parts and labor (+tax,ect.) for me to handle the repair. ....seems regardless, the repair should be taken care of by the party selling the car. In your case your, pathetic dealer. IMO.

I don't know how they sleep at night, I couldn't screw people like this without it bothering me. It gives me the feeling they sit in the back room and laugh it off as to get over it. Who knows......... sorry you have to go through this.

Is there a lemon law in your state, and can you qualify for it. The counsel is made up of mostly every day people who volunteer.(probably becuase they are sick and tired of hearing about people getting screwed by car dealers!)

Bottom Line, Its a simple fix and the stealer knows it, they just want you to pay for it. Your other charges seem extremly bogus also, this is all just a reflection of this dealership.TERRIBLE!

gef3rd · Oct 8, 2012

You should not pay anything to fix (and by that I mean replace) the windshield. The cost to replace this should be paid for by the factory unless the dealership damaged it after they received the car. I would call FNA directly and quit wasting your time with the dealership. If you need a contact just e-mail me at [email protected].

HighandDry · Oct 9, 2012

Although I feel your pain, I really don't find it reasonable to ask for a windshield replacement now. That blemish in the picture would definitely bother me, but it's a year later. IMHO, you should have addressed it a lot earlier.

JH · Oct 9, 2012

Don't pay them one dime! Ask them, if the windshield is supposed to look like that on a new car, or a car from the factory. They will answer "No" - and therefore there's no question on whos pockets have to fork up the money to repair it. YOU are not the dealer, you should not be fighting and mediating between a dealer and FNA. The dealer is REQUIRED to fix this and then THEY can seek to get their costs covered by FNA, who then can go to Ferrari SpA. It can NEVER be the customers responsebility to facilitate communication and negotiation between corporations, they can fight amongst themselves on who has to pay, AFTER they done right by the customer.

Don't pay one dime. And get them to fix their wrongs!

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