Pros and Cons of 330, 365 2+2's,400,412?

330GT 2+2 4 headlight: pros: least expensive of the classic 2+2, nice torquey 4 liter V12 ; cons: controverial styling, most had 4 speed+overdrive, small rear seat room. These were probably the most unloved of the classic 2+2's and many were not well kept as a result. Smog exempt. Prices: $60K-$90K

330GT 2+2 2 headlight: pros: nicer looking, nice torquey engine, most had 5 speeds (there was some overlap), many had A/C, almost affordable ; cons: small rear seat room. Smog exempt. Prices: $65K - $100K

365GT 2+2 "Queen mother" pros: even bigger 4.4l engine, power steering, A/C, comfortable, more back seat room, "Superfast" styling, independent rear suspension; cons: the biggest 2+2, heavy, rear self levelling shocks can be problematic, getting expensive to buy. Still - these don't drive like big cars. They are pretty nimble for the size. Probably not as nimble as the 330GT2+2, though. Smog exempt. Prices: $75K - $120K

365GT/4 2+2 pros: CHEAP, roomy (more back seat room than 365?), great engine sound with the Weber DCOE's, 4 cams, most will be smog exempt in CA. cons: not the prettiest Ferrari, not that easy to find, no automatics (could be considered a pro), rarely well taken care of, never officially imported into US, but this is likely not an issue at this point. Engine timing chain can be prone to stretching and should be replaced every 50K miles or so. Maintenance will be higher since the sidedraught carbs block access. Prices: $25K - $45K

400/400i/412 bigger version of the 365GT/4 2+2 that is easier to find for sale, most will NOT be smog exempt in CA. I would personally avoid carbed cars that have to be smogged in CA. Automatic option was offered on the 400. Not officially imported into US, and will probably need to have proper DOT/EPA papers. Prices: $25K-$50K

The 4 cam 2+2's are a lot of car for the money, but you have to be careful to find one that has been kept up, has all necessary import papers, and emissions equipment if 1976 or newer.

Ferrari model numbers for these cars indicate the capacity of a single cylinder in cc's.

Oh yeah - Keith Bluemel's V12 book is a must have. It covers all the above cars in excrutiating detail, and is still in print!

-steve

 

excellent succinct reply

 

Agree.

Regarding 330 2+2's, I have an early Series I. No regrets, I love it, but for practical purposes, it's an antique, more akin to the preceding 250 series cars than to the following much-more-refined 330 Series II's, 365 2+2's, and later front-12 2+2's.

I actually prefer the 4-headlight config and other details over the Series II 330's...the Series I is a more visceral car, devoid of most comforts, really noisy and fun to drive.

These cars can be difficult to insure as a daily driver in some states; State Farm won't touch my 330 and I have my insurance on it through Hagerty - an excellent company, but like all classic-car insurers, they have use and mileage restrictions.

 

I have a question on the chain drive for the cams of the 400/412 , Steve mentioned in his (wonderfu)l summary that the chains or prone to streching, I have read this else where, I was under the impression that these cars use the 'colombo' v-12 that is in many Ferrari's. I inspected a 365 GTB recently, while the heads flowed diffrent, most notably down draft carbs instead of side draft the chain drive for the cams seemed identical from the top. Is there some drive diffrence at the crank shaft end that would promote this streching issue? Does the wet sump of the 400/412 have something to do with this? This does fall under the origional posters question on diffrences I hope.

 

This thread touches a little on the timing chain:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104594

For some reason, Ferrari changed something with the timing chain from the Daytona engine (which doesn't have this issue) to the C/4. I remember reading something a few years back, but don't recall now what it was. I think the chain is a bit longer than in the Daytona. I also do not know if Ferrari fixed this issue for the later cars (400, 412) or if it's the same.

-steve

 

Steve,

A some minor points on the series 2 330s:

1. All had 5 speed (the last 125 Series 1 cars, known as the Interims had 5 speed as well).

2. The Series 1s through the early Series 2s had the 4 mount engine which, I believe, is what gave the visceral feel that Scott describes.

3. I believe the last 4 series 2 cars sold at auction (they were in driver condition) went for over $100k.


Mike,

In my opinion, the late series 1 (interim cars) or early series 2 cars are the best combination of direct connection, in terms of feel to the old cars while being easier to live with like the later cars. The 330GT shares it's chassis with the Superfast and has a similar motor to the Superamerica (I may be pushing my luck on the last point ) which, in my opinion, makes it an amazing car for the money (but then again, I'm biased )

Two good people for you to talk to are PeterP who owns both a Mondial Cab and a 330GT S2 and Dan R. (DBR330GT - on tom Yang's site, and I believe here as well) who has a 330GT S2 and a 328.


Scott,

Insurance may depend on where you live, I have a State Farm agreed value policy and my car is not registered as an antique.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art...yes, that's true. My State Farm agent told me that for some reason I've forgotten the particulars of, they could no longer write agreed-value or even regular driver coverage on a car like mine in Texas, but could in some other states. It has to do with the car itself and the risk involved, not how it's registered.

My 330 is state-registered as a "normal" car, but since it's 25+ years old it doesn't have to pass the emissions and other parts of the yearly state inspection. The "classic" part is for the plates only...for $15 extra a year you can use original license plates for the year of the car. I got mine off ebay, still in the original wrapping, for about $95.

"Antique" registration here is its own entity, with special plates, no inspections required, and permitted use extremely limited.

 

This family of engines was first used in the 365GTC/4, which is basically a two seater with itty bitty rear seats. Ferrari dropped the "C" lineage after this. The "B" Berlinettas became mid engine flat 12's after the Daytona and used this configuration until the 550. The 456 was a clean sheet engine design, I believe. So, the 365GTC/4, 365GT/4 2+2, 400, 400i, and 412 used engines that were not used in any other models.

-steve

 

got a solution to this problem. I had to develop a new material system that is permanently bonded to the existing chain tensioner rails. The chain streaching is a result in part due to the high heat developed when these rails wear out. If anyone has rebuilt a 365/400/412 you have seen the tracks created by the chain on the rail. The technology used at time of manufactuer was state of the art, but in the 21st century, this material is just really old junk. I am a materials scientist and when I rebuilt the V12, I had a need that needed a solution, so....

I estimate the liketime for this modification to be well over 100K miles. This modification along with the new cam grind, have the redline on my V12 right up to 8K. I have it rev limited at 7K, but a person has to find limits to be able to set limits.

Contact me if you need/want more information on this modification. It takes me about a week to turn around a set of rails. Price is about 1/3 of new, and we can't get new tensioners real easy anymore.

good luck

 

There are pictures and a brief guide to each model you mention here:

http://www.qv500.com/indexferrari5.php

 

The Queen Mother was named by Road & Track. I owned one for a few years, and loved it. It is large enough for people to sit in the back seat for some time. I now have a 1980 400i (convertible), and it is great as well.

400 gts

 

excellent post!

 

There is one more pro for the 365 GT4 2+2's, they were all 5 speeds.

Get the stick, it is a totally different experience.

 

Steve-I went on Amazon and see that this book only goes to 1973-is there anything that covers the 400/412 in detail?

Thanks!

 

An excellent book on the 412 has been published by an Italian editor, Automobilia, written by Paolo Murani and Stefano Pasini. 90 pages, lots of detail photos, and written in english, french and italian.
When you've read the book and looked at the photos, then you'll be able to decide whether you want one or not.

 

Second that this is an excellent (and probably best, if not only) book on the 412.

John