Pulling a 3x8 Engine

JWise, I, & another of the local FChat members will be pulling John's engine this weekend. We've researched the archives pretty thoroughly as well as the engine removal procedure in the 308 FAQ.

Have one question for FerrariFixer, Rifleman, & any other members with relevant experience:

Which way do you tilt the engine when pulling/installing it?
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All of the FChat descriptions have the engine being tilted almost 90 degrees towards the rear of the car. This is usually done by lifting by the forward intake manifold bolts, or by a strap around the front head.

However, We also asked the other Ferrari board & JRV recommended tilting it TOWARDS THE REAR! He saw a film of the factory tilting the engines that way when dropping them into nnew 308s. He believes that it makes it much easier to avoid bumping the rear window or engine compartment rim. Also posted photos that look pretty reasonable.

See:
http://www.ferrari [-] talk.com/discus/messages/5/6286.html?1093367497

Umm, you'll have to edit the link a bit, seems that there's automatic censoring in place.

 

It's JWise's car this time.

See post #9 in this thread:
Verell's BBQ pics!
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27865

This is part of the work for doing this:
Replacing 308/328 Timing(Cam Belt) Drive Bearings
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28437

However, It seemed like a good idea to make it a separate topic because it's generally applicable to anything requiring engine removal. This wil make future searches for it easier.

 

Thanks, for this & the other tips. This is EXACTLY the sort of things we're looking for. They'll help us save time. If we can't get the block drains out, maybe a shop vacuum on the heater line can suck most of the water out of the block before we start the pull.

 

BBQ was in Groton,MA (Just S & a bit W of Nashua,NH).
One next year is likely based on feedback we got & great turnout.

Tnx Yelcab, We've got the thread with Peter's picture. Think we've located all the motor pull threads in the archives, spent about 4 hours searching & I had a pretty good idea where they were since I'd read them when they were originally posted.

 

Thanks for the advice!

This is just a preview, we hope to write up a step by step procedure based on our experiences & post it later. Also have some pictures, but we were so busy working that pictures are going to be a bit sparse. Maybe we'll get more during re-assembly.

Took all day getting ready for the pull, but about 5:30 it was out!

Thank goodness Spider348. came over about lunch time. We really needed him several times, including the actual engine pull. Two people probably could have done the job, but they'd be exhausted & nervous wrecks from jumping between the hoist & the engine.

ROTATED ENGINE FORWARD
Actual lifting went quite well. Took JRV's advice & tilted the motor FORWARD, contrary to common practice. It was snug, but it came out w/o tearing up the lip below the window, or cracking the window. In fact, was very easy to keep it away from the lip & window, but at times had only about 1" clearance. Maybe rotating the engine another 10-15 degrees would have given another 1" clearance. Will find out when we install.
We hadn't quite harnessed it right. Doubled a heavy nylon strap around the 1-4 bank head with the lift point over the intakes.

Should have reversed the strap with the lift point coming up over the exhaust manifold.
Result was that the balance point was too far forward. To get the necessary forward tilt we ended up using an additional ratcheted nylon strap
to lift the differential. The ratchet was barely up to the job.

Somehow when we looked at my printed out copies of JRV's Pix we just couldn't't see how the chains were attached. It's obvious now, the lifting point is just about straignt up over the exhaust side of the 1-4 bank.

I also couldn't figure out how JRV was attaching the chains. Again, tonight it's obvious. There's one hook on the reaction bar mounting bolt, & the other goes down to the differential. Think the big difference is that the printouts were B&W, & the chains don't show up very well at all. However, they were a big help!

Once we got the engine rotated into the proper position (Bank 1-4 cylenders were vertical) the engine came out essentially straight up. Was very nicely balanced & didn't want to twist or do anything else untoward!


FORWARD MANIFOLD STAYED ON ENGINE.
Also, contrary to common practice, we did NOT remove the fwd manifold! The forward tilt let us leave the fwd intake manifold on the engine during the pull. The manifold nicely rotated out of the way directly under the engine!

HALF-SHAFTS STAYED IN
Completely removed the rear motor mounts from both engine & frame. Once they were out of the way, the half-shafts nicely laid across the frame rails. We left them attached to the wheels. Were even able to push the car around with them nestling on the rails! Just covered them with a pair of heavy ziploc bags to keep dust out.

It's out & safely perched across a set of 2x4s stretched across the engine hoist's legs.

Tomorrow we'll mount it on the engine stand. May have to fabricate some brackets to mount it to the stand, but can't tell till we get the flywheel
off. Existing stand mounts on the bell housing studs may do the job once the spacer behind the flywheel is off.

I've pulled a lot of engines, but the only one that was this snug was my '58 XK150 Jag's engine.

Had to get the lifting angle just right to snake the engine over the radiator while the tranny was coming out of the bell housing. The Jag pull was somewhat more challenging because we had to keep moving the hoist backwards while raising the engine. ie: had to lift the engine/tranny along a centerline that angled upwards at about 30 degrees. Any upwards motion had to have about 2x that much forward motion.

 

Looked that way to us also, that's why we didn't drop it back into place & redo the straps after we realized we'd gotten the lift point wrong.

I've got a couple of ideas for dropping it back in. Hopefully one of them will work. I suspect that the toughest part of re-installation is coaxing the engine into rotating back towards it's normal orientation & position while keeping it clear of everything.

Wish I could put the car on my lift, position the engine over the bay, then raise the car until the engine was in the bay. Would then have access to things from underneath which would make final rotation & positioning a lot easier. Unfortunately, I just don't have space for the engine hoist while a car is on the lift.

TODAY'S PROGRESS:
- ON ENGINE STAND
Anyway, got it mounted on the engine stand today, had to pull the flywheel & rear spacer to get long enough studs to go thru the engine stand's stand-off brackets. Next time I think I'm going to make some stud extenders that thread onto the existing studs, the extenders would havehave short studs that just go thru the engine stand's stand-off's. Alternatively, I may make extra long metric threaded stand-offs for the 308 engine.

Other than having to pull the clutch, flywheel, & spacer there weren't any big issues with getting it onto the stand.

Turned out that it was a good thing we pulled the engine. We discovered that the crankshaft oil seal had begun seeping oil onto the back of the flywheel which was then slinging it all around the bell housing. The seal was fine a year ago when the clutch was replaced, so the seal was left alone. Anyway, the new clutch hadn't been oil contaminated yet, so we got to it in time. Otherwise wouldn't have discovered it until the clutch started slipping & may have damaged the flywheel.

We spent most of the afternoon removing 21 years worth of grime from the engine. According to records the engine has never been pulled, & we didn't see anything that indicated otherwise.

Am having to do a bit of machining in order to use my radial arm drill press to drill out the studs. At max extension, the drill tip is about 30mm away from touching the studs.

This is after we dismounted the drill press radial arm from the floor stand and reinstalledit on the bench stand which we'd on the floor stand's work table. This gives us lots of head height adjustment, but it just can't quite go low
enough.

Am removing the bench stand's central column & am making T-nuts to mount it directly to the bench stand's work table. It looks like this will drop the head the necessary distance.

If not, then the next step is to cut down the bench stand's colum. The column is longer than my mini-lathe's work bed. However, I may be able to use a steady rest to support the free end & let it overhang the end of the lathe bed. Alternatively, There's a friendly local machine shop that can easily handle the job.

 

My dream is to write the 3x8 equivalent of a Haynes manual someday. Probably will have to wait until I retire tho.

BTW, don't you consider these threads to be 'permanant record'? Only took me a couple of hours to dig out the great engine pull & timing bearing replacement articles in the Old FerrariChat Tech Q&A archives going back to 2001 or so.