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Purchase experience with Ferrari of Newport Beach (split from Ferrari of San Antonio thread) .

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ray Smith, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Probably to cover their costs to fix the car and not report any of that to Carfax and not create any service record at the dealership.

    I had a similar, although far less tragic situation which is still ongoing with Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA.

    They refuse to release the entire service history for my 430. The salesman/sales manager is Chris Pullis.

    Among other issues, I saw the car cover/bag in the trunk when we inspected the car initially. After we signed the papers the car cover suddenly went missing. I guess one of their friends needed a genuine Ferrari car cover.

    Unless you buy a car from them year after year, you don't matter to them.

    Good luck.

    Ray
     
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  3. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
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    Tell us the fact about the Newport. what happened?
     
  4. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Can you clarify?

    Is there a limit on the number of characters allowed in a post?

    One point I'd like to emphasize is that if I were buying the car from a private party, I would have walked away if the owner refused to provide service records. But this was a consignment sale with Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA acting as the middle-man. The Carfax I ran on the vehicle was a waste of money. They only list what was reported to them by a servicing entity. The car was originally titled to Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA and there are almost no service records available from them on this period of time. Despite the fact that they claim to have performed all necessary and required work on the car for both prior owners. The car was them sold to a guy in Visalia, CA. Yet one is expected to believe he drove down to Newport Beach to have the oil changed ― once in 10 years.

    The records I was able to obtain are sketchy and cover only a short amount of the life of the car. Those reports I was able to obtain contain huge redactions, making it unclear exactly what they did. There are sporadic reports of the one-year and two-year required services, but none at all for three year and subsequent services.The 3-year service mandates an F1 fluid flush. There is also a mandate to replace maintence items like the F1 accumulator and the gearbox filter and fluid based on age not mileage. There is no indication these things were ever done. These items are vehicle age dependent. The car has had three owners including me. No one apparently followed the warranty guidelines for service, yet they provided an extra one and 3/4 years of the 15 year power train warranty to me. Whether they will honor that commitment is increasingly in question.

    In the spirit of simply attempting to replace those items that should have been replaced but according to the records they gave me were not, I asked my "service concierge" whether I should just replace the accumulator and flush the F1 system and his response was "just drive the car". I should point out that my "service concierge" has been the only bright spot in this situation which is why he remains nameless. Take note that I never indicated that I would perform these operations myself, but left open the possibility I would pay them to do it. At the time I had no idea how to perform these services. That has since changed. I have the special tools, the WSM (parts of it anyway) and so could do this myself. It's not a burdensome chore for me as I'm used to working on my cars and actually find it enjoyable.

    My beef with them stems from the lack of transparency and their incredibly weak assertions that things like the car cover/bag, the battery charger, and the flashlight were simply "lost" . At one point I asked if they would arrange to sell me the car cover at their cost (I could care less about the flashlight and dorky charger). Initially they (Chris Pullis) said they would do that but have subsequently played dumb on those promises. And it's not as if they sold me this car as a "loss leader". They got their full asking price.

    Subsequently I discovered the car had bee involved in an accident serious enough to dent the front fascia which was repaired (not replaced) and the area repainted which explains no rock chips. Had I been able to read those records prior to purchase I may still have bought the car, but been aggressive in negotiating the price. It also had full width skid plates installed, so you can imagine what they looked like prior.

    When I asked about headers they recommended Fabspeed. When I asked about CARB compliance they said "We do the smog check". Okay, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night so I took that to mean "It fell off a truck" and I would pass smog checks and be able to re-register the car with no issues.

    If you are buying a new Ferrari, there are only so many things they can do that are counter to your interest. As someone here said, "If you buy a new Ferrari from a dealer, they are a Ferrari Dealer. If you buy a used Ferrari from them they are a used car dealer".

    I'm not a litigious person. I don't go running to a lawyer to solve issues best solved by negotiation. But when the other side refuses to negotiate all that's left is to warn others.

    Ray
     
  5. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Jesus never bought a used Ferrari...from Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA.
     
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  6. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

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    At first I thought you were talking about the grigio alloy 812. So you did buy the said car in your post, why? what model and what year was it? how many miles?
     
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  8. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    2007 F430 5,272 mies (which I discovered later they rolled back using the SD3 tool. The mileages on different service records gave that away).

    Why? Because I trusted the dealership, specifically the salesman Chris Pullis.
     
  9. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
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    This is a whole different level and story, Ray. Your story is a real concern here! I just resubscribed to this thread and please let's not going into the op's lousy $1500 lost and ferrari dealership standard blah blah blah for the last 12 pages. Look at Ray, he did not even say a word until I asked him.
     
  10. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Believe me when I tell you that I would be delighted to nullify this sale with only the loss of $1,500.

    Based on the documented lack of required service to critical vehicle systems there exists the potential for serious and staggeringly expensive failures. Had I known this (and I did inquire about reading the service records prior to agreeing to buy the vehicle but was lied to) I may not have finalized the purchase. They insisted that they had performed the Ferrari inspection required to make it a certified pre-owned vehicle and any failures (in the power train) would be covered for 18 months.

    Using my X-431 Torque I have determined that clutch wear is not an issue but hoping for the best while planning for the worst I have purchased a clutch alignment tool and E-Diff solenoid tools. I am in the process of acquiring a new F1 accumulator since the rubber bladder is subject to exposure to polluted air, deterioration, and eventual failure taking the F1 pump motor with it. The lack of periodic required F1 fluid flushes leaves open the possibility of a failure in the F1 system, potentially resulting in a system failure on the road. This is compounded by failure to warn me that the F1 accumulator has never been replaced in 14 years when it is supposed to be replaced every three years as required by Ferrari as per the WSM.

    While I have taken some precautionary steps such as installing the Scud Ing Advanced eMT Relay ECU to monitor the F1 pump/accumulator health, and the Scud Ing Solenoid Test tool to monitor the E-Diff, these steps will only provide early warning of eventual and expensive failure.

    By not being made aware of the lack of required service on the vehicle this has resulted in my viewing the car as a ticking bomb. It has taken away the initial rush of exhilaration of owning the car. It has, to say the least, left me with the impression that Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA in general, and sales manager Chris Pullis lack basic business ethics. I guess they assumed I was just a rube to be conned and not someone who would be back in two months to purchase an F8 Tributo.

    Ray
     
  11. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

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    You really should not suck this up and you really should just go ahead to find an attorney because this is blatantly obvious some action of the dealer here, as you described, are actionable.
     
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  13. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Rolling back an odometer is a Federal crime.

    49 U.S.C. § 32703 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 49. Transportation § 32703.

    It's also prohibited under state law in CA , although being more than ten years old reduces the possibility of fraud on state forms in California.

    If you've been defrauded by a dealer, there are also civil remedies.

    Disclaimer- not a lawyer, just good with google. :D

    D



     
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  14. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
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    You should start a separate thread (or maybe have the mods split this off) on that so it doesn't get buried here.

    Besides for the mileage rollback though (which is obviously both highly unethical, but also very illegal) I don't really see what they did wrong though, it would be up to you to demand service documentation or not buy the car.
     
  15. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    I agree with everything here-

    start a new thread

    odometer rollback is extremely serious without notification

    lack of service records, buyer beware
     
  16. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    I agree that when they started playing games with the service records I should have walked. My bad.

    I should have not walked down that alley at midnight flashing all that cash.

    That covers the multiple pre-sale faux pas on my part. Mea culpa.

    However, that does not address their continued reluctance to release all the information about the vehicle. That does not address the fact that the title for the car lists the mileage at the time of sale on May 23, 2020 as 5,272, while a service record I obtained shows the mileage on April 14, 2020 as 5,397. I had no idea until I obtained the WSM that it is possible, using the SD3 or similar tool, to reset the odometer to any value you want. Ostensibly this is so that if the instrument cluster needs to be replaced, the new unit, which would have an odometer value of zero, can be reset to the value that was indicated prior to replacement. However, this capability also allows them to reset the odometer to a value lower than actual in order to make the vehicle more salable. Given the fact that they redacted large sections of the service records I was able to obtain, to, in their words "protect the privacy of the seller" it begs the question just how many miles were on the car when the seller placed it with them for sale on consignment, another fact they conveniently failed to disclose until after the papers were signed. Not knowing who owned the vehicle and how it was titled makes it difficult to determine the actual mileage.

    Despite the fact that I have spent an additional $10,000 (very conservative estimate) on items to protect the car (PPF, Clear Plex, cameras, practically every product Scud Ing sells for safety/reliability, and special tools for the Ferrari 430, I would be happy to return the car to them (with all the original parts carefully packaged) for a refund of just my purchase price. I am more than willing to eat the additional costs as penance for trusting Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA to be ethical and honest.

    Ray
     
  17. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior

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    My opinion only, but it seems doubtful that they would risk their reputation and the fact that they can go to jail to roll back 125 miles on a used F430 - seems like a mistake on the service bill
     
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  18. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    The point is: Was it only 125 miles? And it was done after the car was in their possession for resale.

    When people lie to you once, you begin to wonder how many other things that they told you are untrue.

    Ray
     
  19. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior

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    Might be best to just enjoy the car
     
  20. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    That's very easy for you to say.

    My "service concierge" said something very similar: "Drive the car". Of course, neither of you will be on the hook for a $12,000 repair bill if the factory headers crack, or a $6,000 bill for a new F1 pump motor if the accumulator fails through no fault of mine.

    So I am proactively replacing the accumulator. Myself. The last thing I would do at this point is to trust Ferrari of Newport Beach, CA to go near the car.

    If we were talking about a Monet I would tend to agree with you. Beautiful as the car is, it's not a Monet.

    Ray
     
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  21. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

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    are you a accustomed to doing work on Ferrari yourself? sorry don't know your background in terms of working on cars. I think there are some reputable indy shop for Ferrari like eugenio's in LA.
     
  22. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    ^
    This.

    I really doubt that they would turn back an odometer for 125 miles. What would be the point? Does that reduced mileage have any impact on the resale value of the car? Almost certainly this was some sort of transcription error.

    Also, my understanding is the rollback via a SD3 can only be done through Ferrari. A dealer cannot do it independently. Perhaps SAFE4NOW can chime in on this.
     
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  23. lawteam

    lawteam Karting
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    It seems you bought a used Ferrari with 5,000+ miles and received 1.75 years of power train warranty which can be verified through FOA. You bought the car eyes open without the benefit of service records, then spent another 10,000 on extras and tools and now you want to give it back. Unless you can prove the dealer rolled back the odometer there is really no reason to trash the dealer. It is the same as the Ferrari of San Antonio complaint. He bought and didn't check before and was upset when it arrived. Dealer did the buyer a favor and took it back. A lot of complaining over buyer's remorse in both cases.
     
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  24. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    I have been working on cars since I was sixteen. I have had four Corvettes and did all the service myself. That includes replacing rotors, control arm bushings, anti-roll bars and bushings, shocks, a clutch, and a lot of other things, including on my Z06. See my web site for details and photo walk throughs for others to do the same.

    I have the WSM (Chinese PDF) and the special tools Ferrari specifies for the work I will need to do. I have Quick Jacks, jack stands, and Rhino ramps. And more hand tools than some shops. This is not my first rodeo.

    My X-431 Torque diagnostic tool is capable of doing most of the special functions and I have Stef's SEST tool for the E-Diff. I bought the clutch alignment tool just in case. Will it take me longer than a flat-rate mechanic? You betcha. I do not go near a car with power tools, a lesson I learned from the Pratt & Miller race team. But the work will be done correctly.

    I have acquired all the crush washers, O-rings, and filters necessary to change the engine oil and the gearbox oil and to flush the entire F1 system. BTW, the Normal Guy Super Car Youtube video does not depict the correct procedure. The are two bleed nipples for the F1 and the actuator must be bled as well (three screws). Then a gearbox-self-learn cycle. The only way to completely flush the system.

    I am in the process of acquiring the F1 accumulator and will install it prior to bleeding/flushing the system completely with Liqui Moly hydraulic fluid, not ATF.

    Replacing brake pads is a no-brainer with a pad spreader designed for four-piston calipers. As is a complete brake fluid flush and bleed with a refill of Motul 600 RBF. Resurfacing the rotors will be done at Porterfield Brakes, manufacturer of racing brake pads, in Costa Mesa.

    I necessary I can replace the old MKI headers with either Fabspeed or Agency Power units. Both have pre-drilled fittings for the downstream O2 sensor and the EGT sensor.

    I'm kinda looking forward to it. Reminds me of days spent at the race track.

    Ray
     
  25. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    Thank you for the unsolicited advice, counselor.

    You haven't accounted for their reluctance to release all the service records, and their broken promises such as selling me a new car cover at a discount. You would think that simple act would be bupkis to them, but no, it cuts into their margin.

    And no explanation whatsoever on the mileage rollback. But your point is well taken. Perhaps you'd suggest I file a complaint with the California DMV?

    Which is a better course of action?

    Ray
     
  26. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior

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    wow, now I truly feel sorry for Ferrari of Newport, best of luck to you.
     
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  27. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Very well said ...
     
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  28. MoreGarages413

    MoreGarages413 Karting

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    Unfortunately for you, you now have a car ‘with a story.’ I hope you can get the satisfaction and resolution you seek so you can go out and enjoy it with nothing more than a s**t eating grin every time you push the throttle.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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