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Purchase thoughts: F430 Scuderia vs. 458 Italia

Discussion in '360/430' started by secretcollector, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    The car will see maybe 1,000 miles/year, road only, no track time. First Ferrari purchase to be added to an extensive modern Porsche collection. Will be black over black.

    Any and all thoughts appreciated guys.

    I am used to driving the RS cars, both NA and twin turbo.

    Michael
     
  2. KJM3SMG

    KJM3SMG Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2006
    973
    Loudoun County, VA
    Full Name:
    Karl - KJ
    here we go again... use search
     
  3. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    I tried, thank you. Came up with hundreds of hits, so if you could suggest an exact search and/or provide a link to this topic previously being discussed, I would appreciate it.
     
  4. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
    2,082
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tim&Julie
    I had both a 09 Scud and now a 2010 .2 RS.

    (along with other Porsches: 89 Speedster, 67 911S and others)

    Very similar overall. The Scud was more hard core vs the Porsche by a thin margin. Carpet and insulation making the RS slightly more usable. If I had both and you asked me to drive one 1000 miles I would choose the RS.

    Scud vs 458. 458 is less raw. Vastly more usable. Wife and G/F friendly. Performance wise the 458 and the Scud are very similar with ease of driving quickly easily going to the 458.

    Its hard to know which Ferrari will be a value retainer let alone an appreciating asset. I would say neither. The Scuderia is the most unique but the market values would have to increase by roughly $150k to get even with what many paid in 2008/09. (The Scuderia we bought 2 years ago was at a $100k+ discount over what the original owner paid. The car had 500 miles on it...)

    I am not sure I would buy either being 100% honest. Lots of new stuff coming to market that will make both look like yesterdays news. Prices will continue to fall. Please be clear, I love both the 458 and Scuderia and may get one or both..
     
  5. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    Great thoughts, thank you. For me, I just want a Ferrari one time that looks great and is fun to drive. I know there will always be something faster. I own every modern Porsche so already have much faster cars.

    I see what appear to be really low mileage, no stories Scuds in the high $100's vs. what seems like MSRP's around $300,000. I see 2012 or 2013 458's with the better warranty falling fast from new. Scud's seem like a better value?

    Does anyone know how many Scud's were produced? Anything in terms of options to look out for?
     
  6. diSCUDsted

    diSCUDsted Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2010
    997
    ILLinois
    Nobody knows exactly how many Scuds, but many believe between 3-4000. Only most sought after options would be the carbon fiber pkg, and another big one most believe needed on Scud are the racing stripes. All 09MY had the carbon pkg. It's the earlier run of 08 MY that didn't have them.
    As far as the color you want, you're in luck. It is probably one of the least desirable colors wanted in a Scud, so you can probably find a nice low mileage one at a better deal than any other color out there.
     
  7. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,526
    #7 freshmeat, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
    I thought the number was somewhere in between 1,600-1,800? Where did this new 3k number come from?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZN1f0iGHOE]Ferrari 458 Spider vs 430 Scuderia GTBOARD.com Event May 2013 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETEpDcxJ0YM]Ferrari 430 Scuderia vs Ferrari 458 Italia - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry_Ywh8I9-4]Ferrari 458 Speciale | evo REVIEW - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. Russell996

    Russell996 Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2010
    2,250
    New Forest UK
    Full Name:
    Russell
    1600-1800 Scuds were produced!
     
  9. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2011
    6,226
    virginia usa
    Interesting question.. having considered buying a 458 new . I think they are great cars but decided the 430 scud was more for me. So I spent a few months looking for the perfect 430 Scud for me.. I found one and bought from a fellow fchat member .. SO i guess you should drive both and then decide .. If you want a car to drive and take your wife out to dinner etc then get the 458.. If you want a car that will make you smile every time you drive and will be different then most nearly anything else then you will likely get the 430 scud..
    Best of luck no wrong decision here....
     
  10. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    Thank you everyone. Been great feedback given to me here today. I am going to chase the Scud (keeping my 25 year streak alive of never having driven any car before buying it).
     
  11. fc2

    fc2 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Nov 2, 2006
    5,136
    Silicon Valley Ca.
    Full Name:
    Frank C.
    If you want a the Scud experience in a spider... Ferrari made the 16M which is just amazing. It was a limited production car (499 made).

    They're a little harder to find and a bit more expensive, but well worth the price. My 16M is the best car I've ever owned.

    Good luck on your search... love to see pix of your Porsche collection at some point. We've been a Porsche family for 25 years.
     
  12. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    I am looking only for a coupe....
     
  13. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2011
    6,226
    virginia usa
    I had never driven one before I bought it but I feel certain you will love it......
    LarryH
     
  14. diSCUDsted

    diSCUDsted Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2010
    997
    ILLinois
    That's the number I've always seen floating around on many forums Alwin. I personally don't know, and I don't believe ANYONE on this forum has concrete evidence either. I don't understand why the many attempts that many claim at getting an official count from FNA have come up short.

    As far as I'm concerned, nobody knows and can only speculate until Ferrari themselves releases this information.
     
  15. Ross_L

    Ross_L Karting

    Dec 17, 2012
    237
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Ross
    I had this same dilemma when I was purchasing. I wanted a car considered to be a true Ferrari without the maintenance costs and craziness for my first Fcar. I also wanted a car that would keep me grinning every time I drove it. I was looking hard at the 458, 599, Scud, and 360 CS. The 458 and 599 were too plush for my tastes. I wanted more raw. The 360 CS sounds amazing but the price is close enough to the Scud that I questioned why I'd buy an 04 car with belts over an 09 chain drive that is considered more reliable and better in pretty much every stat. It can also still be CPO'd and warrantied for additional peace of mind.

    I went with the Scud and have driven it almost 3k miles since June and still love it just as much as day 1. The car has everything I want. It's raw yet refined enough that my wife enjoys it and is comfortable in it. I can see the frame welds, which is awesome! The gearbox doesn't make me miss a manual at all. It's IMO better than a double clutch because it still has a clutch feel to it. The double clutches now are too perfect and feel like an automatic in normal driving conditions. The car also sounds amazing, can easily be daily driven in comfort, and is simply fantastic!

    Last but not least, the car is a limited run car so they "should" hold their value better in the long run. It seems to be holding true currently but I haven't kept up with the market in the last few months since I own now :)
     
  16. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,526
    #16 freshmeat, Dec 8, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
    Well given that Ferrari factory can churn out only 4000 cars at the time, your number seems unrealistically high.

    Since the first factory overhaul at the end of 2009, that capacity has gone up to 6,400ish. So indirectly you're saying the Scud production alone accounted for more than 75% (3,000 over 4,000) of all production...

    Seems unrealistic. After all, Ferrari ain't no McLaren churning out 5-6,000 MP4s alone every year.
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    30,962
    Albuquerque, NM
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Collector- What car do you already have that is way quicker than a 458? R&T tested one at 10.9 secs a 132.5 mph and that is quicker than most Porsches and only slightly slower than a Turbo S in the 1/4 mile, but catching up fast at a much higher trap speed. Rolling start and the 458 is likely quicker.
     
  18. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    GT2RS and Ruf RGT.

    I have definitely settled on a Scuderia coupe, need to find the right one now.
     
  19. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,180
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    Congratulations, imo the right decision! Please keep us informed about your evaluation process.
    You're going to keep the GT2 RS? Fits perfectly with the Scuderia...
    (if a porsche then the GT2 RS, it's my favorite Porsche (next to the CGT) :) )
     
  20. diSCUDsted

    diSCUDsted Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2010
    997
    ILLinois
    No. What I am saying is I don't know and neither do you. We can all guess and ASSume. The bigger question here is why the f%3k can't Ferrari just release the information so it keeps everyone from guessing.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,010
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    I know it does not really matter and surely does not matter to me but...

    I thought the general consensus from car and driver and other rags, was that the 458 Italia was in fact faster than the GT2 RS. The GT2 RS is faster than the Ruf, so I suppose I don't get your point when you state you have faster cars.
    2011 Ferrari 458 Italia vs. 2012 McLaren MP4-12C, 2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS - Video - Car and Driver

    I do agree however that someone will always have a faster car, prettier girl, more money, bigger house, more cars, etc....
     
  22. KJM3SMG

    KJM3SMG Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2006
    973
    Loudoun County, VA
    Full Name:
    Karl - KJ
    GT2 RS is faster despite that acceleration test showing it's close. Might be tires or drivers.

    Physics don't lie: GT2 RS has 50 more horsepower, 116 more lb/ft torque, and weighs 200 lbs. less than a 458... it's bound to be faster and with a 7:18 Nurburgring lap time, vs 7:32 for 458.
     

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