Purchasing Gun for Wife

at this point with all the current restrictions in place, I think the only gun control needed would be Self Control. If you don't want it, then don't buy it. People kill people, whatever....There are plenty of quotes out there for anti guns and pro guns. I'm pro gun, that's obvious by my posts, but I won't force another to change their beliefs, just let them shoot mine if they want and make their own judgement. This is a dead horse, it's like arguements over what motor oil is better, etc. Look at all the pollution caused by cars, we must all stop driving now because ultimatly we are killing the earth. Quick, stop selling gasoline and fuels so they can't use it to fuel the machines clear cutting the land and killing species.....There are so many more issues out there than to see this one constantly come up...Someone go start a smoking thread, lol....That's probably the only thing that I don't do, lol....You can make statistics say anything you want...

 

just pick a topic and run with it....

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact02.html

http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/a/alcohol_abuse/death-types.htm

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

http://www.disastercenter.com/traffic/tpe.htm

BTW, I still say get her a compact .40 cal.

 

Parkerfe- I'll indulge your argument.

Constitution and 2nd amendment was enacted over 200 years ago when the country was still in infancy and just expelled the threat of British government. Yes, citizens had to arm themselves against the gov't and other threats.

Fast forward 200 years, when was last time someone in America needed to defend themselves against the US government and it turned out well (i.e. waco)? Do you honestly believe whatever arsenal you maintain can hold off gov't forces if they want to take you into custody? That is what the legal system is for.

People do not immigrate to USA solely for right to own a gun, they come for a better life, that usually means having an opportunity to earn a better living.

So those news stories about children finding guns and accidentally shooting someone, you never hear about those in strict gun control countries, does that mean anything to you?

 

IIRC Denmark does not even have a military?

 

Its not when was the last time you needed a gun that matters...what is important is that you have one the NEXT time you need it...And, the reason the opportunity is greater here is because of our freedoms, including the right to own a gun. You NEVER give up freedom for security...or else you will end up with neither. FYI, there are also news stories about children drowning in bath tubs, but I do not see anyone wanting laws enacted outlawing bathtubs. You can always pick out some statistical tragedy and then rationalize how some law could have prevented it from occuring...what we need is more parental involvement in our childrens' lives...that is what will protect them...not a bunch of politicians in DC trying to limit our freedoms any more than they already are! If a child gets hold of a gun and shoots themself or someone else, it was some adults and/or parents fault for either not properly training the child about the dangers of guns and their proper handling or for not properly securing the gun out of the childs reach...

 

This is one of the reasons I choose to protect myself. When we hear of people with long rap sheets.....why...they should be in jail...but the legal system feels they should be out because there is no room in jails, or because the liberals feel they should be rehabilitated....come on...after someone has 3 or more feloney crimes...they should never ever see the streets. This also goes for people with multiple DUI's!

Man Arrested In N.J. Killings

POSTED: 11:24 pm EDT July 19, 2006
UPDATED: 8:46 pm EDT July 20, 2006
NEWARK, N.J. -- A man suspected of killing at least two people in Newark and East Orange was arrested Thursday, police said.

Noah Cuebas, 23, was taken into police custody for questioning on Sunday, police said.

Cuebas is accused of kidnapping a woman in East Orange during a July 9 carjacking, raping her and shooting her in a Newark parking lot. The victim is still in critical condition at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey hospital.

Cuebas is also accused of fatally shooting Allen Reese on Feb. 21, 2005. Police said the killer used the Reese's cellular phone to taunt the victim's relatives about the shooting.

Police said the suspect may also be responsible for several other violent crimes in Orange, New Brunswick and Queens.

© 2006 by WNBC.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

Funny you chose to include this!

 

parkerfe- my position is not whether an american should have a right to own a gun, I'm just stating the direct factual correlation that societies with lax gun control have a much higher incidence of homicides by firearms.

I'm neither pro-gun nor anti-gun. I respect those who acknowledge that high degree of gun ownership equals more death by firearms, but can still say so what!

Same as I know that smoking kills, but i do it and so what.

I don't accept arguments from pro-gun groups that there is no correlation.

Argument is not whether you should have right to own gun, argument is whether lax gun controls caused unnecessary deaths.

Sometimes citizens need the government to be protected from themselves. Bet you 99 out of 100 fathers who lose their children to accidental shooting inside the home would wish they had never had the gun the first place. It's only after the tradegy that people see the light.

 

At the risk of getting back to the original topic, ...

When contemplating "home defence" the first thing you need to do is study the local laws relating to "self defence" and "lethal force".

The next thing to consider is what scenario you're defending against. In general, most criminals have an advantage in that they've planned a little, while their victims haven't considered the possibilities at all. A little "what if" thinking can shift the ledger considerably -- with our without a gun.

The only truly dangerous weapon is the human mind ... provided it's loaded.

What tools would be most useful for the dangerous mind to use will depend on the scenario. Plan ahead. That will tell you what weapons would suit the situation. (Remember the line: "too close for missiles, switching to guns"? How about "too close for guns, switching to knife"? Or that disco favorite: "I kneed a hero"?)

If you and your wife are thinking that your "poor helpless wommun" needs a gun to defend herself, then you may need an attitude shift more than a weapon. There are any number of women in marshal arts that could kick your butt. And, in nature, the most dangerous animal is a female defending her young.

 

LOL! Where? In the nuts? That's just not nice. If you kneed a criminal... Well... that's OK and appropriate for close-quarters combat.

I will let the others have fun with the other (numerous) spelling errors.

Sorry... couldn't resist!

 

The news media will always headline accidental deaths by firearms as to put the anti-gun momentum in the minds of its readers. Never do you hear of mainstream media headline how use of a firearm defended a family from a violent criminal, saved a woman from a potential rape, etc.

Firearm ownership in America is a right to its law abiding citizens, not a privelidge.

 

Well, spin this one around and look at the other side of the coin. I'll bet you that 100 out of 100 people who saved a life with the use of a gun are thrilled that we didn't have laws preventing gun ownership. If you're going to claim to have an open mind, best to look at both sides objectively.

There are risks and rewards associated with gun ownership. If you are not responsible enough or fearful of children getting hurt or whatever other reason you see fit not to own a gun, DON'T. I could not care less if you own a gun, but I care a great deal about anyone telling me that I can't choose to own one.

 

For those people who need government protection from themselves, I would advise relocating to one of the places you listed in a prior post:
England
Japan
Hong Kong

The governments in those countries are more than happy to "protect" their citizens. I prefer to live here, where I'm free to protect myself.

 

Yes it is legal, it is our constitutional right unless you are a felon.

What are you to do to protect you and your family while waiting for the police. Especially in areas that are very spread out and have limited police it can take a while. Homes in rural areas have been a target for home invasions in some areas because the criminals know that no one will get there to help for a long time.

Pepper Spray, when fired indoors, will cause the same problems to the person spraying it and the person being sprayed. If it is the fogger type it simply fills the room and everyone inhales it. Then you have two people with impaired vision, pain, and breathing problems. Who is going to win? The stronger person, which may be the drugged up person that just broke into your house, who will most likely be armed.

I don't like stun guns because you have to touch the person with it. If you are a 115 pound woman and a 300 pound armed guy is in your home I doubt he is going to let you get close enough to touch him with the stun gun. Air Tasers are a bit better but you still have to be pretty close.

The threat needs to be stopped before it gets close.

These people are criminals, they do not care what they do to you or your family. They are out to get whatever they can for themselves, if that means killing you they have no problem with it. The criminals are usually drug users, they live to get their next fix. They do not think like a rational person.

The criminals are armed. They buy their guns on the street. The guns are usually stolen. This is why gun control does not work because these people do not go to a gun store, fill out paperwork and submit to a background check. They simply go buy whatever they want from the trunk of a car somewhere. Criminals are never going to give up their guns, so neither will I.

 

You are a true socialist my friend. Citizens of a free country NEVER need protection from themselves...that is not the purpose of government in a free society. As long as the execise of ones rights do not intrude on anothers, the government should stay clear. Intrastructure and military are the govenments only providence IMHO and that of our founding fathers as well. And, while the parent of a gun victim would likely regret that he/she didn't properly train his child or secure the gun, I doubt he would necessarily regret having it in the first place. In that note, when one of my children go over to "play" with new friends, I always inquire as to whether or not they have a gun in the house and if so, are they in a gun safe? That is just parenting...even though I have also trained my daughters (8, 10 & 12) on the dangers of guns and how not to handle them without me present...I have taken them to the shooting range as well...

 

research crime statistics (THEFT)for britian and knife related deaths, those are quite high

 

Statistics speak and also mislead/lie. Generally, the less detail, the more misinformation. It's not surprising that gun-related deaths are less in a strict gun control country. The real question is what are total violent deaths (i.e. is there substitution taking place in gun control countries).

Attached is a more detailed table of violent deaths per 100,000 population in the same countries. I also added Netherlands & Switzerland (as sample European countries with low and high % guns in homes), Israel (as country with surprisingly low violent death rate but high gun presence), and Taiwan (an Asian country with a high homicide rate but strict gun control). The Firearm Deaths column is the sum of Firearm Homicide and Firearm Suicide, which I believe "matches" the earlier statistics quoted.

What is apparent is that the violent death rate runs a much narrow range (9.53 to 25.34) than the firearm deaths rate (0.06 to 11.31). Countries with lower homicide rates tend to have higher suicide rates (it would be interesting to find out why). And that when violence is present with gun control (Taiwan), substitutes are found.
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Yes, it is legal for a law abiding citizen to go out and buy a gun in the United States. That person needs to submit to a background check (felons are not allowed to purchase/own firearms) and register every firearm purchased to comply with federal law.

Firearms serve many more purposes than just protection. I'm sure this will open a whole new can of worms, but I use firearms to hunt game animals every year. I also donate several deer that I take with said firearms to programs that feed less fortunate individuals through Missouri's Share the Harvest program. In addition to hunting, I enjoy shooting recreationally. When I was in college I competed in shooting sports, but now it's just something that I do for fun.

I guess that comes down to personal choice. For me, an alarm system is a great tool to help keep people out of my home. I sincerely hope that it works because I really don't want to be put in a situation where I'm forced to use a firearm to defend myself. With that being said, I have a firearm that I am perfectly willing and able to use if I am forced into such an encounter.

The media thrives on tragedy. No one would bother to tune in to hear a story about someone who prevented a murder, robbery, rape etc with the use of a firearm. Rest assured, these events happen a LOT more often than the tragedies, you just don't hear about them. If it makes you feel any better, neither do we here in the US. For the most part, the media is far too liberal to focus on the positive attributes of firearm ownership.

 

Yin- Spin it all you want guys. Let's separate between hard facts and hypothecials.

Fact is a large absolute number of deaths are caused by handguns, your argument that these deaths would happen anyway by other means, bollocks. For every instance where someone successfully defended themselves because they had a handgun there are probably ten times more instances that wasn't the case.

I'll bet my CS that if you impose UK's strict gun control laws in the USA the absolute number of violent deaths will go down dramatically no matter by what means.

Why can't you guys accept that loose handgun control causes a higher homicide rate? What's there to argue? More guns in hands of good and bad guys, means more killings. I had several friends murdered in nyc and florida by handguns. I guarantee if they lived elsewhere they still be alive today.

I can walk the streets of singapore, taiwan, hong kong, japan and have zero concern that I be victim of firearm assault. You get jail time in those countries just for possessing bullets.

I'm not saying you shouldn't own a gun, just don't tell me no gun control is the best policy, there are societies who handle the gun issue with much better results. My argument is supported by hard facts that US has the highest homicide rate by handguns.

 

I would gladly relieve you of your CS, but this is a very vague statement that would be impossible to disprove even if you did qualify it with some numbers and parameters.

Toss your statistics out the window for a moment and just argue your point based on logic. How is gun control going to reduce the number of violent deaths? If I, as a criminal, am willing to commit a violent crime that is punishable by death do I really care if I am violating a minor gun law? Am I going to take the time to purchase a firearm legally and then use it in a crime that can be tied right back to me? Am I going to surrender my guns if new legislation is passed that prevents me from owning a gun?

 

Also dont forget that if a criminal wants a gun. He will get a gun, no matter where he lives.

 

You reduce the amount of guns in the market place and % of criminals ability to get access to guns will lessen.

Not all criminals engage in premediated murders. Majority of time it is heat of moment actions, if they did not have a gun, less likely of deaths.

Argue facts. Are you saying USA has the best gun control policy? Provide an argument that can be supported with facts. Fact is countries with strict gun control laws suffer dramatically less gun related deaths. Doesn't matter how many hypotheticals you throw out there it is not supported by the facts.

Blah blah blah..we heard that argument over and over that criminals have guns so we must defend ourselves. So explain why homicide death rates are low in gun control countries. Citizens there do not have guns yet they are much less likely to be killed by guns. Not one citizen in Hong kong has a gun nor do they feel the need to have one to defend themselves.

YES, it's your inherited right to own a gun as an american citizen, with that you're also much more likely to be kill by a gun also.

 

I am very sorry that you've encountered such tragedies in life. It's senseless that such crimes occur, but if you can make that argument, is it not also fair to say that the use of a firearm for protection could have also helped them?

Don't criminals get much tougher punishments for almost every crime in those places? Maybe we need stricter enforcement of current laws instead of the senseless creation of new laws.

For every "fact" that you toss out there, I can find one to refute it. I've refrained from getting into a paper debate because it doesn't prove anything. You can twist numbers to show just about anything you want, making them just about as valuable as a share of Enron stock.

You seem to excel at pointing out "problems" so I'm eager to hear some solutions. I'd like to hear some specific, realistic solutions to support your beliefs. I don't mean this negatively, I'd like for it to be an intelligent discussion.

 

patrick- wow, is that best you can do?

same as if a coke user can get it if they're determine so let's legalize coke

The solution is deterrent. Impose a strictly enforced law that individuals caught with non-license guns get stiff jail terms. You will see a severe drop in gun possessions even for criminals because they know they'll get 10 years if caught.

Second, limit supply in marketplace, right now it's too easy to get a gun. If you are law abiding citizen what's wrong with registering before buying a handgun. You take 50% of guns off the streets that means those guns will not ever be used in a crime.

There is no one bullet solution, attack it from several directions and homicide rates will drop withoutg infringing your GOD given right to own a handgun.

You guys live in your own bubble world. There are more successful gun control societies worldwide if only you can open your eyes to look.

 

Again, it's call gun control.

What's wrong with national database to track what guns you own? You can own ten different guns, that's fine. Database will prevent anyone from NYC buying unlimited guns in virginia and bringing back to NYC on a bus.

Impose requirement to pass gun safety course before being allow to buy a gun, if you need to pass test to get driver license why not to own a gun. This will also help the inexperience wifes to handle the guns safely. No one ever has immediate urgency to own a gun unless it is to commit a crime, suicide or go postal.

In both cases it was murder, typically having a firearm does not prevent one from getting murdered.