Put a fork in Level 5 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Put a fork in Level 5

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by PCA Hack, Apr 4, 2012.

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  1. UAS

    UAS Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2008
    1,193
    Glen Cove, NY
    Most challenge cars are serviced and run by independents and not the dealers.
     
  2. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2005
    3,778
    Idaho
    Full Name:
    Andrew
  3. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Whether that's true today or not, I'm not sure, as I've been out of the Challenge for a LONG time. That said, historically, the cars were always dealer-maintained. This was to discourage, well, "cheating". And, even that didn't always work. However, to the best of my knowledge, the current Challenge series is still in compliance with this long-standing rule. How ST got a waiver is still somewhat of an unknown.

    BTW, here's a quote from the FNA site (http://www2.ferrarichallenge.com/faqs) that applies...

    "Ferrari cars racing in the series are carefully prepared and maintained for competition by authorized Ferrari dealers, many of whom have formed racing teams for the series."

    CW
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,673
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Boardwalk contracted out its challenge racing this year, of course Tucker was always on his own except maybe first few races.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,673
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Give credit to ChipG who posted this last year.

    Some other articles...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/racing/news/20120402/scott-tucker-payday-scam/index.html

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ftc-charges-payday-lending-scheme-with-piling-inflated-fees-on-borrowers-and-making-unlawful-threats-when-collecting-2012-04-02

    Like many others, I raced against Tucker a few times his first couple years when he was doing SCCA. He was a hack, tore up his race car almost every session. From what I saw later on even in his pro racing he wasn't 10% the talent that his marketing team made him out to be. Surprised he didn't do better with all those resources, "car prep", and more track time than any other racer out there by many times.
     
  6. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    And, there's the rub. Who knows what work was done to ST's car in his shop. Cost no object, of course. To be clear, I'm not suggesting he's not a talented driver, but he may have had a little cushion on his way to the championship.

    I know that he had three cars (race, spare and testing). This meant that the race car stayed fresh and all development miles were on the testing chassis. What, specifically, was done to make his car(s) faster, I don't know. And, perhaps, nothing. However, when you take those cars out of a dealer's control, who knows what might be happening to them other than the principle and his wrenches. It just calls the accomplishments themselves into question.

    What arrangements Boardwalk has, I don't know, either, but the intent of the Challenge was always that the cars were to be dealer-maintained. Whether FNA is letting Boardwalk do something inappropriate, I don't know. But, if I were a dealer and Boardwalk was allowed to do something I wasn't, I'd wonder about a double standard. These cars are all supposed to be tech'd, but there was a suggestion/rule many years ago that the ECUs be swapped between teams to further discourage cheating. Even a spec series like the Challenge cannot entirely eliminate the problem. Especially when owners want to win and are willing to pay anything to do so.

    CW
     
  7. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Challenge title. SCCA title. ALMS rookie of the year.

    That's not a resume totally devoid of any talent. However, whether he "bought" those titles is a subject of discussion. Heck, though, isn't that part of the game? It's often the best-financed team with the best equipment that wins. Not always, but often.

    I've never raced against him, so your on-track experience with him is more than I've got. So, I will certainly defer to you on that point.

    CW
     
  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,673
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    #33 rob lay, Apr 10, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
    actually, spec and stock series have the most opportunity for cheating. if rules are open then development isn't cheating and the cheating you can still do has less impact. in a stock or spec series almost anything is cheating and offers huge returns.

    there are a hundred things a racer can do and a thousand things a top engineer can do to a spec or stock car that tech mostly likely won't find and if you do get caught it will just be on that one thing and you get a slap.

    the best and only rule for cheating that is effective is a racers own ethics and pride that what he accomplished was fair and deserved. there are many racers that have hollow trophies sitting on their shelf.
     
  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,673
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    What he had going for him was more track time on a weekly basis than any other driver in the world, the best resources, and he had balls (wasn't afraid of much). What I think he lacked was consistency and ability to ride the 100% line without going over. One race we did was at TMS roval coming out of infield, he was unable to exit the road course without rubbing the wall. The good racers were giving the wall a foot, the racers without balls were giving it 10 feet, Scott hit it.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcAyLKwL9s8[/ame]
     
  10. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    No doubt. I suppose I could understand it when real money and pride are at stake, such as in a professional series. But, where there's nothing to gain (but everything to lose) by cheating in a lesser series where there's nothing to win but bragging rights, I don't see the point. In the end, ST's racing achievements will always have an asterisk. Not because of this FTC mess, though.

    CW
     
  11. PCA Hack

    PCA Hack Formula Junior

    May 9, 2008
    610
    Rancho Santa Fe, CA
  12. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    I know, I know.

    But, self-promoters ALWAYS put me on alert.

    Old habits die hard...

    CW
     
  13. PCA Hack

    PCA Hack Formula Junior

    May 9, 2008
    610
    Rancho Santa Fe, CA
  14. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Technically, unless the bank accounts or assets are seized, I suppose they can continue on until the money runs out. And, assuming ST isn't remanded to custody, he would be able to be in attendance. His attorneys might advise him to keep a lower profile, though.

    CW
     
  15. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    92,090
    ha! that's awesome :rolleyes:

    anyone know the arrangement he has with his co-drivers? I'm assuming it's a paying (and fairly well paying) gig for sports cars, otherwise why would talented, respected guys be associated with this goon? especially someone like RHR, who has a lot to lose, image-wise...
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,673
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    his personality is to flaunt in the face of those after him. Colorado Attorney General had a warrant out for his arrest, so he bought a vacation home in Colorado and flew in on his private jet to do a SCCA Club Race and immediately left. Imagine Monday morning when they found out what he did.
     
  17. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Bad idea to wave a flag in front of a bull...

    IMO, that's just reckless, unnecessary behaviour. If that's how he ran AMG, I'm not surprised he's in hot water. I knew about the Colorado AG suit, but thumbing your nose at the AG is a sure way to incite a response.

    CW
     
  18. stewf

    stewf Karting

    Dec 5, 2005
    163
    Lewisville/N. Cali
    Full Name:
    Stew F
    His first two seasons he ran completely under the Boardwalk banner and even won a race at one point.

    [quote =]What arrangements Boardwalk has, I don't know, either, but the intent of the Challenge was always that the cars were to be dealer-maintained. Whether FNA is letting Boardwalk do something inappropriate, I don't know. But, if I were a dealer and Boardwalk was allowed to do something I wasn't, I'd wonder about a double standard. These cars are all supposed to be tech'd, but there was a suggestion/rule many years ago that the ECUs be swapped between teams to further discourage cheating. Even a spec series like the Challenge cannot entirely eliminate the problem. Especially when owners want to win and are willing to pay anything to do so. [/quote]

    Like most of the teams which are run by independents, Boardwalk has always had employees at the track and the same responsibility to insure that the cars adhered to the same rules as every other dealer whether an in-house team or independent team campaigned the cars - no double standards.
     
  19. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
    3,767
    NYC, FL
    Full Name:
    Jerome
    You guys do realize he went to jail for a year several years ago for fraud right?
     
  20. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    92,090
    yeah I think that's public knowledge, at least within the racing community.
     
  21. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Where there's smoke...

    CW
     
  22. PCA Hack

    PCA Hack Formula Junior

    May 9, 2008
    610
    Rancho Santa Fe, CA
  23. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    And the hits just keep on coming...

    CW
     
  24. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    92,090
    ouch.

    I will say I like the timing....last big press release/news articles about him were around Petit last year, now right on the Long Beach weekend....
     
  25. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    Yep.
     

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