Q3 Fuel Burn Could be Axed | FerrariChat
Buy

Q3 Fuel Burn Could be Axed

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by cantsleepnk, Sep 5, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2005
    616
    Detroit, MI
    Full Name:
    Nick
    #1 cantsleepnk, Sep 5, 2007
    I hope they let the cars qualify on empty tanks but mandate that each car must do at least 4 flying laps.

    http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070905171053.shtml

    Key formula one figures are scheduled to meet ahead of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza this week with the aim of tweaking the qualifying format for 2008.

    The current so-called 'knockout' system has been generally embraced since it debuted last season.

    But, in conjunction with the parallel parc fermé regulations which require cars to qualify with initial race-levels of fuel in the final Q3 session, it sparked an unwelcome phenomenon known as the 'fuel burn.'

    These opening laps of the top ten runout are not only tedious, but - given their objective for the drivers of simply burning fuel and earning 'credits' to add more fuel before the race - also controversial in a political sense.

    "I think we've got to find a way of getting rid of the fuel burning laps, which is just a completely strange thing to do given we're all becoming eco-friendly," Renault Technical Director Bob Bell, who otherwise praised the knockout format, said in the team's pre-Monza official podcast this week.

    Renault Engineering Director Pat Symonds is a wholehearted supporter of the current qualifying format, but he admitted that the fuel burning "is not good."

    He added: "Interestingly we're talking about that tomorrow with a view to getting rid of it for 2008."
     
  2. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    #2 Remy Zero, Sep 5, 2007
    finally...
     
  3. pdavid

    pdavid Karting

    Dec 15, 2005
    206
    #3 pdavid, Sep 5, 2007
    How would teams determine how much fuel the front cars will carry after qualifying?

    What does everyone think of also taking into account the fastest overall lap time during all of Saturday? In the last few GPs Alonso (I know you all hate Alonso, but I'm using him as an example) has clocked in the fastest qualy lap during Q2... quicker than the Q3 P1 times.
    So let's say Driver A puts down a 59s lap time in Q2 (the fastest lap - thus he automatically gets into Q3). In Q3, he puts in a 59.5s lap, while driver B puts in a 59.4s lap. With the current rules, Driver B gets pole. What if Driver A was rewarded pole position (for putting in the fastest overall lap), even though he was slower in Q3?
     
  4. lucky_13_2002

    lucky_13_2002 F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2006
    3,026
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #4 lucky_13_2002, Sep 5, 2007
    I am not sure, but I think it has been tried before.
     
  5. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    #5 Remy Zero, Sep 5, 2007
    i think Q3 must be a a free for all fight. this means, the top 10 drivers runs little fuel as possible, the fastest getting pole.
     
  6. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    #6 Fast_ian, Sep 6, 2007
    +1

    We "understand" the desire to get the cars on track for the "global audience", and I guess from that perspective it's worked well.

    One idea I had a while back is that *everyone* has to declare their (race start) fuel loads before Q1 - If you don't believe you're going to get out of Q1, then run light. But, if you reckon you're going to get in to Q3 you better have enough fuel onboard......Then, use Q2 for your "fuel burn" laps and go for it in Q3.....

    I guess it would reduce the # of laps the top ten do in Q3, but IMHO they're BS laps anyway - It does seem crazy that the fastest lap of the W/E generally comes in Q2 and then doesn't count.

    Just a thought,
    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  7. pdavid

    pdavid Karting

    Dec 15, 2005
    206
    #7 pdavid, Sep 6, 2007
    What about low fuel Q1, Q2, and Q3 qualifying?
    Sunday, everyone starts with FULL tanks (or enough to last the entire race distance). No refueling during the race, just tire changes.
    No more of this silly "let's fill her up and run longer during the 1st stint" strategy top teams use. Have the drivers go at it for their best grid slot and let them flat out race on Sunday. Also eliminates the need to "favor" one driver by giving them 1 lap less fuel. And promotes overtaking since it minimizes passing in the pits.
    No refueling was done in the 80s, right?
     
  8. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #8 kraftwerk, Sep 6, 2007
    +1


    Its needs revising always seemed a waste to me..


     
  9. robert_c

    robert_c F1 Rookie

    May 12, 2005
    3,417
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Robert C
    #9 robert_c, Sep 6, 2007
    I would argue that MS won races because of a three stop strategy, where he ran less fuel so he could build up a greater lead. I think strategy is good for the sport.
     
  10. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
    8,051
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Kyle
    #10 1_can_dream, Sep 6, 2007
    Agreed, I don't think they need to all be on full tanks they should just pick how much fuel they want to start the race with at the beginning of qualifying. As for the Q3 it should be all out whoever can get the fastest lap with whatever tyres and fuel level they'd like. The only stipulation in they have to get back into the pits after their fastest lap under their own power (ie. can't run out of fuel after your flying lap)
     
  11. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    #11 Remy Zero, Sep 6, 2007
    true, but at least, back in MS's time, there was overtaking. unlike a parade like now.
     
  12. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2005
    616
    Detroit, MI
    Full Name:
    Nick
    #12 cantsleepnk, Sep 7, 2007
    http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070907182545.shtml

    F-1's Sporting Working Group has agreed to rid the current qualifying format of the controversial phenomenon known as 'fuel burning' ahead of the 2008 season.

    Because of the format's clash with the parallel parc ferme regulations, drivers currently approach the opening laps of the top-ten runout with the objective of simply burning fuel and earning 'credits' to add more fuel before the race.

    Renault Technical Director Bob Bell remarked that the unrefined system is at the moment "a completely strange thing to do given we're all becoming eco-friendly".

    The agreed solution for 2008 is twofold; the final Q3 session will be reduced from 15 minutes to a new (unknown) timeframe, and teams will no longer be able to replace burned fuel prior to Sunday's race.

    The tweaks effectively mean that competitors will have to approach the battle for pole position with an initial load of fuel for the race, plus an additional amount for qualifying.

    Should drivers make an error on a flying lap, therefore, they will have to weigh up the benefit of another qualifying attempt with possibly compromising the desired strategy for the first stint of the race.

    The revised format will now be sent to the World Motor Sport Council for approval.
     
  13. V12scream

    V12scream Karting

    Nov 28, 2005
    113
    Gettysburg, PA
    Full Name:
    Henry
    #13 V12scream, Sep 7, 2007
    So Q3 will now become even slower, with bloated full heavy quali and first stint fuel. An even more "contrived" pole position. Ugh!

    The new quali is much better. Q1 and Q2 are good to qualify you to move to Q3. Then, let's separate the men from the eunichs and see some balls out, run any fuel load you want last second screamer laps!!! 4 laps minumum in Q3.

    Why not let the team place any fuel load they want at the start of the race? There would still be strategy involved for length of runs, pit stops, etc.

    If a WDC point were then awarded for pole it would REALLY mean something. The quickest driver in the fastest car got P1. What a concept!!!

    Rant off :)
     
  14. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
    8,051
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Kyle
    #14 1_can_dream, Sep 7, 2007
    This solution sounds horrible, why make the cars go even slower for pole. So much for seeing what the drivers can really do with the cars.
     

Share This Page