Fortunately for M5 owners that will most likely be the case "As far as Europes perception of BMWS, who cares...after all, they have those "great" brands such as Fiats, Peugeots, Opels, Citroens and the like that we don't have...LOL," Chris Bangle worked at Fiat. When he left Fiat he obviously took Fiat's "quality control" with him to BMW...... Citroen and Peugeot currently lead the World Rally Championship so I give them kudos for competing on a factory level.
Well here in the USA, Fiats, Peueots, Opels, Citroens and the like are thought of as CRAP because when they did sell them here they were. Since those companies have been unable to re-enter the American market, which is the most lucrative market in the world, I must believe that those cars are still crap. And unlike more exotic makes like Ferrari and Lambos, the American buyer will not tolerate such a crap car in their everyday drivers.
Hey hey hey, i have a point, eh ? Anyway, to inform your senility : a. BMW is what it is today thanks to one company, MB. If you don't know why, read. b. Sadly, it is quicker than a M5 c. Concerning your driving skills, its a lot a matter of guts, not only of cars. d. For euro-perception, i wouldn't talk like that. These cars are built in europe, and cars were invented in europe. Computers (even if invented by euro engineers, like all NASA rockets) usually don't make people dream from their early age, and only bring them to a forum for bug reports... Now, for the makes you mention : Fiat owns Ferrari, Maserati,Alfa and Lancia, so i guess they have some knowledge of any kind. Peugeot is one of the oldest makes in the world, and owns Citroen, acclaimed as one of the most inventive car company in the world, and they are pretty good a rallying (as well as Citroen), tried some F1, and won GT class a couple of times (24h le mans etc) Renault owns Nissan (and Infinity, eh !) Opels belongs to GM, so yeah, you're right, we have crap as well... So i guess from a car perspective, europe is a league or better two ahead of US dull-stuff, revamped 50 years old design etc. But it's true that they used to be big crap 15-20 years ago, then again, and unlike US makes, they changed for the better....I guess if today they had any of these cars (think Infinity...) badged accordingly, not only would they buy it, but these cars would drive rings around US cars... Also, US market is lucrative for trucks and for high end cars. Average class is led by I buy american
"Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey predicts continued troubles for European automakers with 2005 vehicles. Not only didn't European automakers have even one model among the top vehicles, they dominated the list of vehicles with the worst predicted reliability ratings. Ten of the eleven sedans with Consumer Reports' lowest predicted reliability rating were European, including such high-priced models as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, E-Class, and six-cylinder version of the C-Class; the Jaguar S-Type and X-Type; and the BMW 7 Series and 5 Series. Most of Volkswagen's models, including the Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle, also rated far below average for reliability. The four-cylinder version of the Passat has been troublesome in the past, but VW seems to have gotten the bugs out of that version. Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey. A full half of the sedans and small cars that earned Consumer Reports' highest reliability rating are made by Toyota, including the Lexus and Scion brands. Top models were the Lexus IS300, Toyota Prius, the previous-generation Acura RL, Scion xB, and Toyota Corolla. The only domestic cars to earn the highest reliability rating are the Buick Regal (discontinued for 2005) and the Pontiac Grand Prix (non-supercharged). For the first time, Hyundai earned a spot on CR's list of most reliable cars with its Sonata. CR's Largest Reliability Survey Ever Consumer Reports had the largest response to its latest annual auto reliability survey ever, allowing the nonprofit organization to compile reliability portraits on more than 810,000 vehicles, up from 675,000 vehicles in 2003 and 480,000 in 2002. This is the second year in a row that Consumer Reports surveyed subscribers to both its magazine and its web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, a total of more than 5 million consumers throughout the U.S. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2004 and covered 1997 to 2004 models. To calculate predicted reliability ratings on currently-available models, CR averages the overall reliability scores for the most recent three years, provided that the vehicle remained substantially unchanged in that period and also didn't change for 2005. If a vehicle was new or redesigned in the past couple of years, CR may use only one or two years' data, if that's all that's available. Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey is used in determining which makes and models are recommended to consumers by CR. Consumer Reports recommends only models that have performed well in tests conducted at its Auto Test Center in Connecticut and that have shown average or better reliability in its annual survey. Vehicles that perform poorly in government or insurance industry crash tests and rollover tests will also not be recommended. Occasionally, Consumer Reports may recommend a new or redesigned model that's too new to have compiled a reliability record if it scores well in CR's tests and if previous generations had consistently outstanding reliability. As in past auto surveys done by Consumer Reports, the most reliable vehicles were built by Japanese manufacturers. Among the 32 models with the highest reliability rating in the new (2004) survey, 29 carry Japanese nameplates, with Toyota (16) and Honda (7) claiming the most. Among the 38 models with the lowest rating, 20 are European. The survey also shows that gas/electric hybrid vehicles appear to be holding up well thus far; the Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid were among the most reliable cars. Some new and redesigned models had teething problems. For example, the redesigned Acura TL, typically a reliability standout, only scored average because of problems with body integrity and power accessories. Likewise, both the new Cadillac SRX and the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu and Saab 9-3 scored below average. Asian models monopolized the top ratings in the SUV segment, with the lowest ratings going to a mix of European and U.S. models. The most reliable SUVs are the Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Highlander, Mitsubishi Endeavor, and Toyota RAV4. One third of the SUVs with the lowest ratings are large models, including the Lincoln Navigator, Nissan Armada, Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition, and Hummer H2. Among the new or redesigned SUVs, the redesigned Lexus RX330 was above average, but the new Buick Rainier, Nissan Armada, Volkswagen Touareg, and Porsche Cayenne were all below average. There were no European SUVs in Consumer Reports' survey that rated average or above. No minivans earned the highest predicted reliability rating, but four -- the Nissan Quest, Chevrolet Astro, GMC Safari, and Mazda MPV -- were among the least reliable. The Ford Freestar and Mercury Monterey twins had average reliability in their debut year. Chrysler and Dodge minivans have average predicted reliability ratings following two years of sub par ratings." Seems like other vaunted European manufacturers make crap also.......
Franklin, wat have u said, once again crazyness is pouring out of your mind. Have u ever driven a citroen DS, XM or peugeot 406? or even a lancia delta? these cars in parts of the world where durability counts most, u wont see buicks driving in africa or south american ,but rather countless pugs, renaults, volkswagens etc..... an american car wouldnt fare so well in those conditions, with bal joints and other crap going. Yes i have driven french, italian that are not available here, there are far better than the average american offering. There are many more reasons for their failings than just saying their cars are pure crap.
I have driven and owned a Fiat Spider as well as a Renault LeCar, and they were both pretty crappy, although the Fiat was a lot of fun when running and had classic pininfarina good looks. As to the others , since they are not exported here by those companies, I have not had an chance to drive them, although I am aware of Citroen success in the WRC. I love european cars and have owned many in the past as well as own 2 1/2 now, an M5, a Boxer and my wife's Infiniti a/k/a Renault. And, as I posted earlier, I love the looks of the QP and have test driven one twice as I was considering replacing my M5 with one as a daily driver. But, I decided against it for several reasons, including, but not limited to, the paddle shifter transmission which I do not like in any car, the small back seats for my intended purpose, i.e., a daily driver which needs to regularly be able to carry my family of five in comfort,the QP won't whereas the M5 will, expensive service/repair costs, the fear of massive depreciation of the QP, and I did not want to lose the performance I get in my M5. I will likely consider a used one at $35k or so in a few years though.
Quattroporte +220kg,-110hp VS B5 +150kg,-107hp VS M5 +17,6cm wheelbase + 21,3cm length -248nm torque Β5 & -69nm Μ5 1, 1,595sec faster Theoretical rival 750i-lol Β5 3,4kgr/hp M5 3,5kgr/hp Quattroporte 4,825kgr/hp Quattroporte 1'28''355 M5 1'29''950 Alpina B5 1'30''100 Maserati Quattroporte 4.2V8 400hp ps 451nm 1930kgr 3064mm 5054mm BMW M5 5.0V10 507hp ps 520nm 1780kgr 2888mm 4841mm Alpina B5 4.4V8Turbo 500hp ps 699nm 1720kgr 2888mm 4841mm Quattroporte-double wishbone,47/53(near to perfect 42/58) and translaxe...as a result better accelaration,ore precisely turn in/out and better supleness.In the other hand we have not a sport limo but a pure sportscar with 50,engine in the front(not front/center as sophisticated maserati,mcpherson and a slow steering wheel with 3 turns....Sorry Guys but Bmw's myth of 50/50 perfection is dead.It is not accidental that 159 won all the tests of dynamique behaviour despite being heavier and had the smallest engine in cubish... 159 1.9JTDm 150hp vs A4 2.0TDI vs 320d vs Mondeo 2.2TDCI vs Accord 2.2-CTDI vs C220 CDI vs Vectra 1.9CDTi vs 407 2.0HDi vs 9-3 1.9TiD vs Avensis 2.2 D-cat vs Passat 2.0TDi 159 WON ALL THE TESTS OF ACTIVE SAFETY despite having the smallest engine in cubism with vectra-9-3...most fun to drive. 1)First in acceleration in curve. 2)First in wet Lane Change 3)First in Lane change 4)First in slalom 5)First in reindeer test Comments from Bmw forum -Next time...tell them to hit the Power buton before going on the track.... -Totally unbelievable! Maser is significantly heavier,has over 100 hp less and still faster on track then the M5? -I still can't believe that the Italians managed to make a big luxury saloon like that look so achingly beautiful. Its simply gorgeous! Probably the best looking saloon on sale today! And just look at that interior - Maserati has managed to out-jaguar Jaguar. Who says the British do the wood and leather treatment best
the only problem with masers: stamp a $100 bill with "maserati" and you'd be lucky to change it in for a $50.
Go on, kids. The Evo test was conducted by biased car writers ('automotive journalist' is too lofty a title to bestow upon these hacks) and opinions like this are spouted forth by wankers that make decisions based on some bizarre combination of status and enthusiasm rather than real world experience. Show me the science and the objective pilot behind the wheel.
Comments from Bmw forum -Next time...tell them to hit the Power buton before going on the track.... -Totally unbelievable! Maser is significantly heavier,has over 100 hp less and still faster on track then the M5? -I still can't believe that the Italians managed to make a big luxury saloon like that look so achingly beautiful. Its simply gorgeous! Probably the best looking saloon on sale today! And just look at that interior - Maserati has managed to out-jaguar Jaguar. Who says the British do the wood and leather treatment best Love the comments about Italians making a beautiful 4 door sedan-compared to the stuff coming out of Munich today you have to try really hard to make uglier sedans than BMW although even they were smart enough not to screw around too much with the bread and butter 3 series.
EXCELLENT! A QP owner busting his **** out. Italian cars need to be caned on a regular basis for them to run properly. This type of stuff is exactly what Maser needs, although I would love to see a Pininfarina/Ital Design Boxster fighter from them.
masers along with audis and to a certain extent lambos get a LOT of crap not just from rival fans,but the media as well! so the quattroporte is quicker than the m5?hell,a renault clio 182 kept up with an m6 easy!(evo magazine) no matter how good an audi is,merc and bimmer fans will still go on about crap like residual values,prestige,etc! a maser?"it's not a porsche" lambo?"not a ferrari" and so it goes.
