QP gets an automatic tranny?

good move by maserati but no reason to down grade hp for an automatic in this century anyway. should have done this 1st, then added hi-po version with f1 later on. would consider it now if didnt live where it snows. maybe awd next year?

 

A bump in power would have been nice rather then a dip, but I am assuming its a Benz derived unit and as such it cannot handle the power (hence why AMG autos are still 5spds).

Or is it completely independant?

 

can i get the 612 engine yet!!!! lol.

 

The Maserati V8 isn't all that powerful, now.
But if they want more power later then yes they'd need a beefier box. I think GM now has a suitable transaxel style
automatic.

 

If that 7 speed is MB sourced then it should easily handle the 612's engine.
QP with Auto is what's needed for a large sedan like it is but not with the current,low torque engine.

 

Maybe they had to lower the redline for the auto and lost some hp as a result. The manual car makes peak power at 7,250rpms.

 

they wouldnt/wont have to lower the redline, the engine is the same; as for the tranny it can do it, but wont stay there on its own, its a wierd combo to have, as would be the M5 with an auto, it will never be where it needs to for long to make real power!

 

are you talking about the ''auto'' button in the dash? (along with the paddle shifters)

 

Actually, that 7 speed cannot handle the higher outputs. The 5 speed still remains in the higher horsepower Benzes.

 

They should have bought GM's newly released C6 six speed automatic...although I personally would have chosen a six speed dual clutch sequential.

The single clutch unit presently being used has limitations in its automatic mode that the dual clutch does not.

Would have been a better way to go.

 

It's ridiculous that they would consider reducing the power. The QP is so heavy, what it needs is a bored-out 4.7l V8 with 460-470 HP (which was promised a long time ago - but where is it???) or even better the Scaglietti's 533 HP V12 (which would need A LOT of work to fit under the bonnet - it wouldn't leave much space for radiators, accessories, etc.)

But LESS power??? Who're they trying to kid?

 

I have not heard anything relating to a bored out version of the V8. Where did you hear about this?

QP is so heavy? It is one of the lightest cars in it's class.

My only complaint with the Scag's motor is timing belts. I don't think that the type of car that the Q-Porte is will have owners accept that expensive a service as often as the factory recommends.

 

Actually, the 7 speed can handle the 500 hp+ ,the problem is the high torque of the MB600.
The 612's torque is much lower and would not pose any problem for that tranny,as a matter of fact ,the new ML/E/CLS63 will be built with the 7 speed.
The new 6.3 AMG has even higher torque the the 612....

 

I was under the understanding that torque limited a tranmission more so then HP is this true guys?
Erik

 

Yes, generally so.

 

But then you'll have seven ratios so, maybe in the real world, it won't be as slow as you guys think it will be. I don't think that the people who are in the market for an auto in the Quatroporte would mind, no less feel the loss of some power. Personally, I don't mind it with the cambiocorsa at all, I left it in sport mode all the time when had use of the dealer's demo. Four glorious days in one of the best looking and handling four door sedans.

 

I heard this yesterday but there is a problem, the handling of the car will suffer with the auto, as the gearbox will have to be mounted up front instead of at the rear as it is currently, effectively ruining the weight distribution...

 

Have you seen how far the V8 sits back in the QP, it sits entirely behind the fornt axle line, there would seem to me to be plenty of room for the V12. Also I don't think the QP is going to get the current 612/575/500 V12, that thing is as a dinosaur and way too dated, designed in B.C.(Before Clinton).

I figure there would be a new V12, more high tech motor, lighter with less parts, that will be shared by the QP, 612, 600imola and the new Maserti 2-door coupe version of the QP that is planned. The 600imola and the larger Maser coupe will be a cross platform as will the new "Dino" V8 and the current GranSport.

 

I think they're talking about the same internals in a newly designed case with a diff included.

But, no they won't be sticking the trans back up front.
There's already too little legroom on the passenger side and a transmission up front certainly wouldn't help with that problem.

 

Let me correct you on something - the V12 which has been used on the 456/550/575 and 612 is NOT an old dinosaur. It is very light (250Kg), it has titanium conrods and forged light weight pistons, and is built out of the best alluminium alloys available on the market. It is NOT an old engine: it was designed in 1993 for the 456GT, upgraded to titanium conrods/forged pistons for the 550 in 1996, expanded to 5.7 litres for the 575 in 2001, and finally tuned up to 533 HP in 2004 for the Scaglietti. And this is still a very "mild" state of tuning - check out posts by Stephens to find out how much power a 550 can deliver if the engine is allowed to breathe freely... you'll be amazed.

13 years is a fairly short life span for a modern engine, especially if it's undergoing continous development like the Ferrari V12. Otherwise should we say that the BMW 6-cylinder in line is a 40-year old engine???? No, because we know it's been continuously developed even though some basic dimensions (inter-bore distance, etc.) are still the same as in 1965.

The 600 Imola will have an Enzo-derived V12, which itself is an expansion of the current Maserati V8: the new generation of Ferrari/Maserati engines has been designed on a modular basis, so that almost any design configuration is possible by assembling the basic "building blocks" on a CAD system.

Whether the new "Enzo-derived" V12 or the current "Scaglietti" V12 will be used on the QP remains to be seen, but my guess is that the plentiful low-speed torque characteristic and smooth driveability of the "Scaglietti" engine makes it a better candidate for a luxury limo than the brutal, high-revving (>8000rpm) Enzo-derived unit which will be used on the 600 Imola.

 

Your looking at it from only a performance standpoint. Looking at the big picture, you're forgetting that from a production standpoint the current V12 550/575/612 engine was a dated design when it was introduced. Whether it used forged pistons or not, doesnt make it a current design, they've been using those materials and others like it since the 60's. It's not only about what materials the engine is made of, but also and perhaps more important, how current are the techniques used to produce/manufacture the engine. The characterics you used to descibe the V12 engine's design in 1993 engine don't do anything to help make the case that it has much life left. -Regardless of whether it is in a mild state of tune or not.

What makes the current V12 a dinosaur is the way in which it needs to be manufactured and maintained. Just take a look under the hood, it's a rats nest under there of vaccum lines, plumbing etc. (Compare that to the new F430's engine bay, much less complex, more compact and producing more HP/Liter, less intensive maintence schedule etc.)

An updated V12 design that is built around more modern engine casting and manfucaturing techniques is going to be required if it is going to be produced in any volume and used in cross platforms with Maserati's that have to carry an industry competive 4/50k warranty with extensions.

I don't know whether the new v12's in the Maserati's will be derived from the Imola, but I'm pretty confident it won't use the 456/550/575/612's unit because of it's age it's too prohibitively expensive to manufacture, produce and maintain. With more update engine design and manufacturing procedures, like you had begun to mention with the "building block CAD approach" it is possible that to make a much better all around V12 engine, it might make only the same power, but it will be more effecient and easier to maintain.

I agree with you that from a performance standpoint the current V12 engine isn't dated, but from a cost effeciency, manufacturing, and maintanence standpoint, it is- even with it's updates- one of theoldest engine designs with either make and over due to be replaced. It may even be one of the oldest engine designs/iterations in any performance car available today, depending on what criteria you used to determine whether a subsequent engine is really a new design or a update of the old design.