Flavio has proposed a change in qualifying: "I'm not happy with the first part of qualifying three," he said. "It's confusing. Firstly there should be a times window on the TV because it is difficult to follow. It's hard for the spectators to understand why they are going round and round." Briatore said that the reactions from audiences has been positive, but believes that the rule that dictates cars start the final part of the session on race fuel levels should be dropped. As things stand, the cars spend the first part of the session lapping constantly to burn off fuel and then go for a time. Briatore believes a simple rule-change would spice up the battle for pole position. "One by one is boring. I don't want that. But I believe in qualifying three you should have 15 minutes to set your time. You put as much fuel in the car as you want - say 70 kilos and then at the end the car goes into Parc Ferme and however much you have left is the amount you start the race with." Interesting . . Carol
I'm confused now: Don't these two statements contradict each other? Anyway, I do agree with him, that it would be better if they'd allow refueling after the last qualifying session. That way we would a) really know who is fastest and b) winning the pole becomes meaningful again.
I agree, I get it. I don't see a problem with qualifying but I would like to see teams refuel to see who has the better car and best drivers.
They do allow refueling after the final session! The cars in the final session have the right to top up to the fuel level that they started the session at. At the moment, they put in the fuel they might want to start the race with and then go out to burn off the fuel/weight. Once they get down to their desired fuel level/weight they start ripping off the hot laps. Once done they can add fuel up to the amount they started the session with. If they desire to start the race light they can. Flavio's indeed contradicted himself. But, he's saying they should put in the fuel for the final session and then that's it. No more fuel in the cars.
Sorry Andreas and Brian but that's how the article read - I didn't edit it! Carol Do you suppose that Flavio was confused or the journalist was confused or a combination of both?
Lost in translation. Reading Senna21's explanation I'm still confused. I knew I wouldn't understand the new qualifying rules until a few races into the season. Slow learner.
Ok, here's how the final qualifying fuel thing works. Let's say Ferrari sit down and figure they don't want MS to start the race with no more than 20 liters of fuel. But the ideal qualifying amount is say 5 liters. So, they send the car out during the qualifying session with 20 liters. MS then heads out at the beginning of the session and begins to turn some laps that aren't too hard on the car or on the tires. He cranks the Air Fuel ratio knob on his steering wheel up to the maximum amount so that he'll burn off as much fuel as he can to get down to that 5 liters. He's probably lapping at 90% of the cars potential which keeps Bernie happy for the next ten minutes as all the other cars are also out on track doing the same. Once he's down to that 5 liters he sets the Air Fuel back to it's optimal setting and drives at 100%. This will most likely be in the last five minutes of the session. Here it seems where everyone gets confused. Once he's finished with the session the team can add fuel up to the original 20 liters he started with but not more than that. They can start the race with any amount of fuel in the car below or equal to that original 20 liter amount. So, if they wanted to start with 10 liters they could. IF they wanted to start with 1 liter they could. If they wanted to start with 20 liters they could. But, they could not start the race with 21 liters or even 20.1 liters.
Well, whatever they decide to do, I think they should change it every race! Why settle on something now
Hmm. If I understand that correctly then it does mean that getting pole is valuable again since everybody of the top runners probably tries to get it with those 5 liters and thereafter refuels. Right? And now I understand the comment they made that MS didn't get a chance to burn off enough fuel. So his Bahrain pole is obviously even more amazing because done with extra fuel.
I for one am getting really sick of this flow-chart format of qualifying rules. They want to make it better for spectators, but here you have a chat site full of F1 fans scratching their heads, asking "what if" questions. First of all, qualifying is NOT the race. It is an added portion of the weekend where fans can see the cars in action. The more they tinker with qualifying, the more they over-think it, and they're so far from home right now they need a bus ticket to get back. Go back to the basics. If you're trying to capture interest, and fans want to see racing cars, then put the cars on the track and let them qualify. Instead of ticky-tack rules about tires and fuel amounts, just impose a MINIMUM number of laps that need to be run. And pitch the whole 2-race engine rule. Regs like these are just artificial manipulation of the racing. And if they feel the need to incorporate a "Reality TV" style format, then involve the 3rd drivers somehow. Allow them to qualify, if not against the entire field then at least within the team (ie. RBR can only qualify 2 cars, but it's the fastest of their 3). One of the most interesting things I've seen recently was in the mention of Michael Schumacher constantly varying his brake bias. And so, VOILA! Every time they showed in-car footage, it enhanced what was happening on my screen. But with qualifying, I just kind of sit back, tune it out and watch the cars. In a way, it's an insult to racing fans, or at least an indictment of their own sport, if they feel they need to throw all these sophomoric rules into the format.
It's certainly interesting this year, but it's just not QUALIFYING? I want to see how fast each car can go... an ULTIMATE LAP.... I suggest a simple rule... 1 hour session. NO fuel rules whatsoever, do what you like, start the race with whatever you like. Everybody runs as many laps as they want, BUT grid is determined by an average of their best 10 laps (or 5 laps, or 15 laps... whatever.. but multiple laps averaged).... Doing say, 10, really quick flying laps means doing probably 20 laps or more in the 1 hour session. This would make teams keep cars on track for the whole session, with short stops like in a race for fuel and tyres and minor set up changes. And stop the engine rule... one race/one engine is ok, but not 2 races/one engine. Cost savings here are a nonsense, but sure, we can't have qualifying specials.
Agreed on all these points. Today I thought I had it finally figured out (thanks to Senna21) and now I hear something about a 110% rule. No matter how many times Matchett explained it, I still have no clue how that works. Obviously I'm not the smartest fan, but I'm really into this stuff. So what do the casual F1 watchers think about all this?
Andreas, Did you notice that even Hobbs and Varsha gave a sort of befuddled chuckle over his explanations? It's obvious that the system is overly-complicated. If they like this style of format, maybe what they should do is start out all the cars and just eliminate them, one at a time. Survivor style!
Yes I noticed that. He tried to explain it over and over. But why bother trying to understand it, I'm sure it'll change soon. Anything Survivor style gets my vote. "Ide, the tribe has spoken. Give me your torch. You have to leave the grid immediately." I also like: "Super Aguri, you're the last team to arrive. Sorry to tell you, you both have been eliminated from the race."
It certainly is complicated, and clearly it's confusing, because nobody on here has got it right yet! In the last session, they are circulating to get in as many LAPS as possible, because they get a fixed "fuel credit" for every lap they do. They go slowly so that they ACTUALLY burn as little as possible. Then at the end of qualifying they are allowed to put in x kilos of fuel for every lap they did.. The point of the 110% rule is to stop cars going round VERY slowly to save fuel. So you get the farce of drivers doing laps at 109% of their best to avoid the 110% rule while saving as much fuel as possible. Schumacher's problem in Bahrain qualifying was that he got held up on one of his slow laps and exceeded 110%, so he didn't get "credit" for that lap and started the race with one lap less fuel than he had planned to. Ridiculous system. I like the idea of changig it every race...
My understanding of the way the fuel top-off works after the final qualifying session is slightly different than has been posted here. That is, I understand that, following Q3, the participants in that session are allowed to add a set volume for each lap completed during Q3 that falls within 110% of that driver's fastest lap time. (I believe I heard that volume quoted as 2.75 liters/lap.) As stated in an earlier post, this is an allowable upper limit, and any amount less than this is okay as well. The reason Schumi's strategy was fouled up by this at Bahrain is that he was balked on one of his slower Q3 laps, causing it to fall outside the 110% rule; thus he had to start the race with less fuel than planned. This caused him to need to make his initial stop one lap earlier than "optimal," and in fact miss an extra low-fuel race lap. My understanding is that he (Schumi) made a statement to the effect that losing this one "hot" race lap was enough to make the difference that allowed FA to gain the track position that led to his win. Complex, indeed... dn
I see Dubai Vol got the gist of my reply posted while I was trying to coordinate my poor typing skills with my slow thought processes. Also, I think the amount of fuel allowed may be in kg/lap rather than l/lap... dn
Hey docster, withsomething that confusing it's good to get two explanations! I only know that it's kg/lap because after Bahrain Quali they posted who did how many laps and how many kg of fuel they were allowed to put in. And of course the kg/lap figure will vary from circuit to circuit.....
...that the kg/lap figure would vary from track to track. I thought I heard, though, that the 2.75kg/lap, or whatever the figure is, is kind of a "compromise" figure for the "average" amount used during an "average" hot lap at an "average" circuit. At least that's the way I interpeted whatever it was I actually heard. Then again, my daughter often reminds me that I have a tendency to make **** up. dn
