Quattroporte III A/C

I disassembled the starter for inspection, cleaning, and lubrication. It was working OK but I wanted to put a known quantity back in place. Everything cleaned up well.

I do have a problem that I don't quite understand yet. There needs to be a metal plate that takes the thrust of the armature. There was a plate in this starter, but it can't be the correct one as it doesn't fit right and it allows the armature to run against the aluminum housing. There seems to be two variations of this type of starter. One is like mine with no bolts on the sides of the large white plastic brush holder assembly and and another that has a small bolt on each side of the brush holder to secure it to the main housing. So far, I have only found an exploded diagram of the two bolt type. It appears to have the type of thrust plate that is in my motor.

I thought this Chrysler starter motor would be easy, but I am finding that there just aren't many around. The local parts store has nothing. I don't even see them on e-Bay. There are many of the new replacement "super-starters", but very few originals. I have installed several of the replacement gear reduction starters in other types of cars and have had some hassles with their fit.

I guess I need to check out some of the MoPar sites and forums.
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Hi Mike

Thanks for the pictures of your car. It looks like the A/C unit in your car is the same as the one that I have, so the information and part numbers that appear in this thread should apply directly to your car.

I looked at the pictures that you posted in the "Bare metal repaint" thread. The QP looks very nice and I am envious of your shop and cars: very cool projects! What is the car under the cover to the left of the QP? I hope you will be able to post pictures of the progress as you assemble the cars.

Uhh, I suspect you know this already, but the crankshaft is not supposed to be laying on the floor under the car.....;>)

Aloha
Larry

 

I have had little time to work on the QP. The starter motor is still apart. I have been getting some information on these starters. There was an interesting submission to one of the MoPar news letters about the various Chrysler starters and how most all of the modern cheap rebuilds are done with series wound field coils instead of the original compound series and shunt wound coils. A closer look at my field coil assembly shows the original compound coil set, but the shunt wound coil has only one connection. It looks like the other end of the coil winding has been broken off, so the starter had been operating on only the three series wound coils.

Another item that will need attention is the brittle and crumbling Bosch connector for the distributor pickup. I don't know what is available for repair or replacement of this piece. The female plugs are readily available but I can't remember seeing the male side as a repair part.

One small bit of progress has been the repair of the wiring terminals for the oil sender unit that is next to the oil filter. It is very close to the exhaust header and the wires were brittle and broken away from the original connectors.
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Hi Mike

Again, thanks very much for your pictures and the summary of the projects you are involved in. You have a fantastic group of cars and a really inviting looking space to work on them.

I too have grown to like the early QP's. As the modern cars get more and more similar to each other, the distinctive style of an earlier time gets more and more attractive. The Mistral is special too. I have only seen one here. There was a spyder in town for about a year or two before the owner got transfered back to the mainland.

I look forward to seeing your progress.

Aloha
Larry

 

I am sorry to say that my QP project has spent some more time in neutral. The good news is that some of the time was spent harvesting some parts for one of my other cars from a derelict car found on one of the other islands.

I still have not assembled the starter motor. There seems to be conflicting information about how the field coils are supposed to be set up in the early Chrysler starter. I might just experiment with mine or simply put it back the way it was. It certainly worked fine all these years. I would like to understand the difference, though.

I did get both of the exhaust headers back on the engine and am happy with the way that turned out. I was taken back a little when I could not get the mid-section of the exhaust system to mate up with the headers. All but one or two of the rubber band hangers were broken and the whole system was out of place. Of course, that drew my attention to the exhaust and how ugly it looked. I dropped the mid-section out of the car. To my utter amazement, all of the nuts a bolts for the hangers and the heat shields unscrewed . I thought that it was going to be a nightmare of broken bolts and drilling out rusted threads. It is testament to the very high quality of hardware that Maserati used.

I thought that it was interesting that the hangers at the catalytic converter were on the heat shield which was in turn bolted to the cat.
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I think that I will spring for new hardware. It is pretty clear that these are original parts!
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I have been able to spend a little time cleaning, straightening, and painting the exhaust mounting hardware. I will try to use stainless for the threaded fasteners as much as possible.

I was sorry to see that there was a good size crack in the catalyst housing right at the weld joint. The pipes and end caps are stainless, but the body of the catalyst is mild steel. I would like to weld up the crack, but I am also tempted to let well enough alone for now. I would very much like to get this car mobile again.

I did want to see what condition the core of the catalyst was. The bend in the inlet pipe is enough that none of the core is visible. I hooked up the scope to take a look and although there are a couple of small areas of the core matrix that are melted, the majority of the area looked good.
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Hi Ian

Thanks for your note. You are right. I do share your reservations about stainless fasteners and agree that anti-seize is essential. I am talking about the lightly loaded bolts that secure the heat shields and the hooks for the rubber band supports so I am leaning towards stainless just to avoid the ugly rust.

Aloha
Larry

 

I have been reading information and opinions about the "best" and "proper" way to repair and rebuild the Chrysler starters that were original to the QP III. It seems the consensus is that the original, early field coil setup is preferable, that is three series field coils and one shunt (parallel) coil. This is supposed to maintain constant torque and prevent the motor from running too fast.

The starter in my car worked fine and I never thought there was any problem and it had the shunt coil disconnected. Well, never being able to restrain myself from giving the proverbial "sleeping dog" a good, swift kick combined with curiosity about what the difference would be, I decided to reconnect the shunt coil.

The first picture shows the original condition with the shunt coil wire cut. The second shows the coil wire replaced and the third shows the starter ready to go back in the car, at last!
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Feeling good about having the starter motor assembled and ready to go back into the car, I took a closer look at the exhaust and the crack in the catalytic converter. I decided to make an effort to close up the crack. I do remember being able to hear a small exhaust leak now and then when the engine was at idle. The actual catalyst matrix is supported in the metal casing by a cushion of "steel wool" like material. I wanted to avoid getting things hot enough to melt this rather fine supporting mesh. I decided to do small spots to close up the crack with time to cool between welds.
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Hi Veloce49

Welcome to F-Chat. I don't know anything about the specific car that you mention on e-Bay. In general, the QPIII can be a rewarding car to own. I did look down on them and Maseratis overall, until I ended up with my car just because I had a need for a full four passenger car and it was available at a very good price. I was surprised to find how trouble free it was for years. I am doing work to it now make up for all the years of just using the car. Even though it has been off the road for some time now, when I started the work it was a reliable, driving car. Of course, I am a mechanic so it may be that I just don't get excited over things that might give some people big worries, but I think that I can honestly say that I really didn't have to work on the car much at all.

The entry price and value is low. The repair costs can be high. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the Maserati dealer here would care to work on the older cars. They are rare enough that it might be hard to find someone with experience with the car, although any competent shop should be able to service it.

Look around. They come up for sale fairly often. Drive one or several and see if it is something that you would be happy withdriving and spending time and money on. They are not fuel economy champs....;>)

Aloha
Larry

 

Hi Mike and Veloce49

Mike, I am home now with a cold beer close by after working on my books and taxes all day today. I will look at my car tomorrow and provide as much information as I can about the bumper attachment. I'll take any pictures that I think might be helpful. I have to admit that I went to the car today after doing the paperwork thing for a couple of hours. Just looking at the newly installed starter motor and the ceramic coated headers gave my morale a boost.....;>)

Veloce49, I do like the QP III. Even though the styling is quite conservative, it does have a real presence on the road. Passengers are almost universally impressed by the style and luxury of the interior. I even appreciate the automatic gearbox here in the city with the almost constant traffic congestion. Before I took the car off the road, I had a friend visit from the mainland that was a fan of all things Ferrari. In a good natured way, he gave me a lot of grief about the Maserati. After driving around a bit, I started to hear comments about how the car was actually pretty nice.

Aloha
Larry

 

Hi Mike

I took a look at my bumpers this morning. It is a little more complicated than I was envisioning. What a surprise! Right?

On my car, the smaller end of the energy absorbing strut goes to the bumper. This diameter is 42MM. The larger diameter goes into the chassis. This diameter is 49MM. I can only see the larger diameter at the rear. The front is concealed by the bodywork and the rubber boot.

At this point I can only give you sizes for the bolts that hold the bumper to the strut. It looks like I will have to get into the trunk and the engine compartment to get to the other bolts. I will have to move some stuff from the trunk and engine lid. No horizontal space goes wasted....;>)

Aloha
Larry
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Hi Thor

I think so, yes. I have only seen a small number of these cars, but that is what appears in the parts diagram and it is what I have seen over the years as I made periodic checks for what was being offered on e-Bay. The catalyst almost has to be that shape for the heat shield and hanger assemblies to work. I'll bet some cars have had the catalytic converter cut out and replaced by a straight pipe, or replaced by something after market in states that do emission checks.

Aloha
Larry

 

Hi Mike

I looked a little deeper into the bumper bolt question. The post above shows the bolts that attach the bumper to the strut.

The bolt that attaches the front strut to the chassis is easily accessible in the engine compartment and I have shown that bolt in the first picture below. The bolt that holds the rear strut to the chassis is accessed from the trunk, but it requires pulling up some glued down carpet. I would prefer not to disturb the carpet in my car. I think it would be safe to say that it is a 14 X 1.5 bolt. The unknown is the length. I would think that this length would be easy to determine once you had access to the bolt hole.

The second picture below shows the rear bumper strut. The bumper is to the left, so the larger diameter inserts into the chassis.

Aloha
Larry
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Hi Mike

Thanks for posting the pictures. It is a treat to see such a great collection of cars.

I looked closely at my QP III again and all the bumper struts are installed with the larger diameter inserted into the chassis. This is also the way I remember other cars that I have worked had them installed.

Now the question is why do your struts resist being installed this way. Are all four of your struts the same? Could there be any difference in hole placement between the front and rear? Was there any accident damage to the rear where the chassis box that accepts the strut could be tweaked? Was there some kind of rubber pad inside the chassis box that may have come loose and is preventing the strut from sliding in all the way? Did the body shop leave a rag or masking paper in there...;>) Is the problem that the strut doesn't go in far enough or is it that the holes do not end up in a straight line so that the bolt can pass through the strut and thread into the welded nut on the chassis?

I had never heard of the MIE book with the collected tech articles. Thanks very much for your offer of sharing the info. When my car is mobile again (I hope in this lifetime) I will need to look into the timer for the interior lights. Sometimes mine would not go off and the battery would drain. The wiring diagram for the car with its picture representation of components and the tables of numbers to follow the wires is not my favorite. I hope the guy that came up with the system is gainfully employed in some other line of work these days.

You have a great collection and workshop.

Aloha
Larry