Quattroporte III A/C | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Quattroporte III A/C

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by sowest, May 12, 2009.

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  1. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Larry...

    Thank you again for confirming... I will be double checking the fit
    of the rear struts of the chassis once again... It is possible something
    got wedged up in there... The front struts are exactly as you describe,
    with the large diameter in the chassis, and the small diameter in the
    front bumper... I will keep you informed...

    Now for some info for you that I was able to find and might be helpful:

    - A solid state electronic box "TEDEL 102" controls all in car lights
    (courtesy, cigarette lighter light, timer for dome light control, dash lights,
    light dimmer). It does not have any fuses incorporated in the box, fuses
    are in the central fuse holder.

    You should be able to find black box TEDEL 102 in the central electronics
    package located behind the panel of the passenger footwell... It should be
    directly behind the black box known as TEDEL 101... This may have something
    to do with your interior lights staying on and running down the battery...

    Hope this is of some use to you!

    I would like to ask another favor... Could you post some pictures of the trunk
    compartment with all the carpets, and panel lids in place... This would be
    helpful to me in my re-assembly...

    Mike
     
  2. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #77 sowest, Apr 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Mike

    Thanks for the information on the location of the box that controls the interior lights. It will be helpful when the car is running again. I did spend some time searching, but I don't think that I was ever confident that I had identified the correct black box. As a quick and dirty fix, I simply pulled the bulbs from the lamps.

    I have attached some trunk pictures that should help you get started.

    Aloha
    Larry
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  3. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Larry...

    Thank you for the pictures... They are most helpful...
    Based on the pictures, it appears I am missing some of
    the panels... Not sure which yet, but I will find out soon
    enough...

    What are you currently working on with your QPIII?

    Mike
     
  4. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    Mike,

    your QP3 looks great! The dark paint really looks good on it.

    Larry's trunk area looks just like mine (but neater, I need to re-fabricate the main wall covering the gas tank), let me know if you need any further pics. There are some details like the light coverings, the fasteners on the rear to keep things in place, etc.

    As for the Tech Tips manual, it's not as extensive as some I've seen (Bob Bate Jaguar Driver Technical manual is one of the best I've seen so far - http://www.jag-lovers.org/e-type/Jtechtip.html) but it does have a lot of useful info. Mine came with the car, along with the service and parts manual. AFAIK MIE sells them, or maybe only with a membership, I'm not sure.

    Hope this helps!

    Cheers,
    Thor
     
  5. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Mike and Thor

    Mike, I took more pictures of the trunk. I posted the ones that seemed most useful to give an overall idea of how things are put together. If there are details that need more clarity, just ask. I see Thor has offered to help too. Great!

    Things have been busy here and I have only been able to do small items on the QP. I have been working on getting the two main exhaust sections cleaned up and ready to back in the car. I hope to be able to have some pictures and some progress soon.

    Thor, I just noticed that you have posted in your other thread about your fuel pump problem. I should respond over there. I just haven't had the time to give attention to the important things, like F-Chat and Maserati......;>)

    Aloha
    Larry
     
  6. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    Hi Larry & Mike,

    Mike, let me know if you need any further pics, I see Larry has covered most of the trunk area pretty well.

    Larry, any tips are appreciated. I need to check the fuse and/or relay to the main pump first, as it isn't even making the usual sound I hear normally. Then I want to check and clean the filters, and wanted a few concrete tips there - should I depressurize the fuel system first? Can the filters be checked without pulling the pumps and heat shield under the car?

    Don't stress out about it, I have more than enough other things to look at in the meantime!

    Cheers,
    Thor
     
  7. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    #82 Mexico074, May 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello Thor (Larry)...

    Thank you for the kind words about my QPIII... I am also
    glad to read yours is doing much better!!! If I can ever
    be of any assistance, please don't hesitate to contact me..
    I am sometimes slow in responding due to hectic schedules
    and so many car and house projects, but I do always try!!

    Now, I have a question for you and Larry... Yesterday, I
    began cleaning up wiring on the car, particularly removing
    wiring having to do with an alarm siren, probably installed
    by one of the previous owners... To my surprise I found
    the wiring going to a relay on the passenger side inner
    fender above the bosch electronics box... I thought no
    problem removing this until I notice one of the coil wires
    leading to the relay!!! (see attached picture)... According
    to the QPIII electrics diagram and info, one of the coil leads
    goes to the bosch electronics box and the other to the coil resistors
    located close to the battery... I still need to trace this down
    a little further, but have either of you seen this before?

    Mike
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  8. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    Hi Mike,

    mine certainly does NOT look like what you have there.

    Could that be some sort of system to cut power to the coil in the event of a break-in?

    My coil is only connected to the distributor and the Bosch ignition system. Nothing else.

    Hope this helps!

    Thor
     
  9. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Mike

    I agree with Thor here. That relay and wiring is not original to the car. It is almost certainly part of the alarm system to disable the ignition.

    Aloha
    Larry
     
  10. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Thor/Larry...

    Thank you both for your quick replies....

    I agree, it is certainly not original... In fact,
    I removed it today!! I will need to connect the
    wire back up to the wire that either goes to the
    coil resistor 'pack' or the bosch ignition box!!!

    I will keep you posted on what else I come across
    and send pictures as things progress....

    Mike
     
  11. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #86 sowest, May 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have made some progress with the QP. The main exhaust section for one side is almost ready to go back on the car. The crack in the catalytic converter is closed up, the hanger and heat shield assemblies are cleaned, threads are repaired as needed, and new hardware is in place. I have taken the other side of the exhaust down and it will need the same treatment. It also has a crack in the catalytic converter almost identical to the other side.

    One of the other distractions that has slowed work on the Maserati is the acquisition of a small lathe. I am trying to make space and a bench to get it set up. There are some pictures in the "I have a new toy" thread in the Hawaii section.
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  12. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #87 sowest, May 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Larry...

    Everything looks great... When I get mine up and running
    I will have to look at those areas closely on the lift...

    Now I must ask a question... In your pictures, I see what
    looks like headlight buckets... I know those aren't for a
    QPIII because I'm in the process of putting mine back in..
    So what are the headlight buckets for ???

    After having this car apart for years, I was surprised I
    was able to remember where the myriad amount of
    pieces went... I was a couple of M8 bolts short on the
    passenger side.. Will get them and put the passenger
    side together and send a picture or two!!! Some of
    those bolts are in hard to reach spots...

    Will be taking my Khamsin to a Cars & Coffee in
    Knoxville tomorrow morning.. Looking forward to
    getting the car out!!!

    Mike

    Thor: How is the car running?? Anymore fuel pump
    problems??

    Mike
     
  14. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Mike

    I have to say that when I see pictures of all your cars and the state of disassembly they are in, I think to myself "How does he manage to keep all the bits and pieces in order?".....;>) It looks like you are doing fine!

    The headlight buckets are from a customer's car. It is a two headlight Mangusta. There are some electrical problems. It seems like electrical is often a weak area in some cars and the "quick fixes" pile up over the years. There was a wire to the headlights that had three of those ugly crimp splice connectors in a 12 inch run!!

    Have fun with the Khamsin tomorrow. I am envious!

    By the way, I guess you are more north. I hope you have not had any of the horrible weather that has wreaked havoc on so many areas in the Southeast this spring.

    Thor

    I have posted some drivel about fuel pumps in your "Uphill problems" thread...;>)

    Aloha
    Larry
     
  15. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    #90 Quattroporte3, May 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Mike,

    Here's a picture (somewhat dark, sorry) of my coil and ignition. Hope it helps!

    Cheers,
    Thor




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  16. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Larry / Thor...

    Things are progressing here albeit quite slowly...
    My M14 bolts for the rear bumper struts arrived today...
    I checked them by screwing them into the frame and found
    they were a bit to long... The ones I got are 120 mm long
    and it looks like they need to be 115..

    So for other QP III owners, here is a summary of the
    bumper bolts and bumper strut bolts (Thanks to Sowest!):

    Front Frame to bumper Struts: M14 x 120 x 1.5 (pitch)
    Front bumper to bumper Struts: M14 x 125 x 1.5 (note: length of 120 will work as well)
    Rear Frame to bumper Struts: M14 x 115 x 1.5
    Rear bumper to bumper Struts: M14 x 115 x 1.5

    All side bumperettes use M8 x 30 (course pitch) bolts

    Additionally, I was able to insert the large diameter end of the struts into the rear
    frame and line up the holes... I ran a little wire brush all around in there, vacuumed
    up any loose particles, applied some penetrating oil and pushed/wiggled... The driver
    side went in nicely.. I ended up having to grind down a few high spots on the large
    diameter end of the passenger strut, but ultimately got it to go in and line up the
    holes... Once again I am waiting on hardware!!!

    Thanks again to Larry and Thor for their assistance... Now I need some more
    help... How is the antenna attached in the trunk compartment?? Perhaps a
    picture if possible would help... Where it pokes through the body is easy, but
    I have nothing to attach the bracket (which is on the antenna mast) to???
    Additionally, I am hoping someone might have a rear sunshade clip (the one
    that fastens to the ceiling... One of mine is broken!! Anybody?

    Thanks again...

    Mike
     
  17. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #92 sowest, May 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Mike

    There has been some progress and some good news! The bumper struts are in and the hardware questions are answered. I did not reply to your other thread, but congratulations on finding a good, standard sized crank for your Ghibli. That is fantastic.

    I looked at the antenna on the QP. Mine has been changed at some time before I bought the car. It is only attached where it goes through the sheet metal. There is no support at all for the bottom of the antenna assembly. The water drain hose is not even in place. The only evidence of a support in my car is a small hole in the angle sheet metal brace that is just in front of the antenna. I will guess that there was originally a metal strap that went from that hole to the threaded lug at the bottom of the antenna. I will include some pictures. They probably won't be that useful.

    I don't have any extra sunshade clips. One of mine is broken on both sides. They seem to be very cheap plastic and I thought that it would be better to look into making a replacement out of metal. My kingdom for a milling machine....;>)

    I mentioned earlier that I had just acquired a small lathe. I see that you visited the Hawaii section and found the "More Toys" thread about the Toyota parts. Did you see the earlier "I have a new toy" thread that has some pictures of the lathe? Anyway, at some point I want to look into the possibility of making a batch of the visor clips. Maybe MIE has already done this? I never asked.

    Aloha
    Larry
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  18. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    Hi Mike,

    funny you're working on the antenna, I looked at mine just last weekend, trying desperately (still) to get the radio working. As good as the engine sounds, I want my tunes when I'm driving!

    Mine has a strip of metal that goes from the antenna motor housing to the metal strut you can see in Larry's picture. There's a hole drilled in the strut and the metal strip is bolted on. I had to remove both it and the sleeve nut holding the antenna on the rear deck.

    I'll be out with the car in the morning, and will take a few pictures if I can. Anything specific you want to see?

    Any other suggestions as to how to get the radio working? The fuse (no. 10 in the central box) is fine, I checked with a multimeter and am getting 12v across the fuse holder, but the radio is dead. Nor does the antenna work, not with the radio nor with the dedicated switch. There seems to be a relay as well controlling the radio - is there any way to test a relay (like with a multimeter), or is swapping it with a known good one the simplest way?

    Cheers,
    Thor

    (p.s. we probably should start another thread instead of hijacking the A/C one...)
     
  19. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Thor

    Can you easily remove the radio from the car? Sometimes, it is a time saver to get the radio on the bench and do a quick hook-up to verify that the radio actually works.

    Many recent radios have their own internal fuse. Is the radio grounded? If I remember correctly, the panel that it mounts in is fibreglass, although it should get ground through the antennae cable.

    Also, many radios have two supply wires. One is the main supply and another is for the station set memory.

    Feel free to start another thread if you care to, but don't worry about "hijacking" this thread. I did that myself! I don't think that I have mentioned the A/C since the second page....;>)

    Aloha
    Larry
     
  20. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    #95 Quattroporte3, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Larry,

    my thoughts exactly, so I removed the dials and surround only to find it fitted behind the fascia plate on the central console. As far as I can tell I have to remove the center section to get the radio out, so I figured I might as well check anything else I can first, like the relay.

    Since the antenna doesn't work either, and is apparently on the same circuit, I thought that it might be an electrical problem. The fuse is fine, which leaves the relay. The radio doesn't light up or anything, together with a non-functioning antenna, which is why my first suspicion is a power/fuse/relay problem.

    The P.O. claims it worked when he sold it to me, but who can know for sure. Even if it did, it doesn't now!

    The radio is an old Blaupunkt, with cassette and 5 mechanical preset buttons. Probably without a second supply.

    Cheers,
    Thor
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  21. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    #96 Quattroporte3, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Thor and Larry...

    Thank you so much for the pictures of the antenna...
    I see now how they can connect or just hang there...
    I believe mine is a replacement as it looks different
    than both of yours... I will rig something up to make
    it work!!!

    Thor... After looking through the electrical diagram,
    navigating all the connectors, I can see why you
    suspect the relay (especially since the fuse is fine)..

    I believe you have an electrical diagram with additional
    info to point to the relay... If not, let me know and I
    can scan some stuff that may be helpful!!! Before
    you pull the radio you may want to try and replace
    the relay first and ensure the fuse connections are
    good... Some fuses can look good, but are really not!!
    I know you know this, but replace both these first
    and see what happens!!!

    Mike
     
  23. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Thor & Mike

    I see your difficulty with removing the radio. Ugh! My car has been cut to accept one of those slide in frames (DIN mounting?) Can you remove the small side panels of the forward tunnel to get access to the wiring? If you could get to the wiring at the back of the radio and determine if 12V is reaching the radio, it should tell you if the problem lies in the car's wiring or if you are doomed to pull the console. If you removed those side panels, it might also let you see if it would be possible to sneak the radio out through the back. It is hard for me to get a good idea of the space available since my console is laying across the roof of my Toyota....;>)

    It also seems strange to me that the radio power would go through a relay. Normally, a relay would only be used on a high amperage circuit. I meant to look at the wiring diagram today, but I never got a free moment. I think I have already mentioned that I think the diagram is a miserable piece of work.

    The antennae would / could / might have a relay depending on the way it is activated, either with the original up / down switch or automatically with the radio on / off.

    Aloha
    Larry
     
  24. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,225
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    #99 Mexico074, May 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Thor / Larry...

    I to was skeptical regarding a relay in the mix of the radio
    circuit for this car... That is until I looked at some info
    in the technical binder I have for the car... Attached you
    will see they indicate a radio/radio antenna fuse AND relay...

    Interesting!!!

    I think Thor has this information as well, but I attached it
    here for others, just in case!!

    So, I would still recommend replacing the fuse and relay
    and see if that fixes the problem... If not, I would recommend
    proceeding as Larry indicates - get access to the radio
    wiring, pull radio (not an easy task in this instance) and
    perform bench analysis to determine if the problem is the
    radio or somewhere else in the circuit...

    Mike
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  25. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi Mike and Thor

    Mike, thanks for posting that diagram. That brings some clarity to the wiring layout. I took a quick look at the wiring diagram and Thor is, indeed, on the right track. The relay feeds power to the fuse and there are two wires from the fuse, one goes to the antennae up / down switch and the other goes to +12V on the radio.

    I think that I would try removing the fuse and try a small temporary jumper from a 12V source to the output side of the fuse. If the radio and antennae works, then the problem must be in the relay, 12V supply to the relay, or the circuit that activates the relay. If the radio and antennae does not work, the problem must be in the wiring, the plug in connector, or the component itself.

    Aloha
    Larry
     

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