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Quattroporte III catch-all thread

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Quattroporte3, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    #76 Thestash, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for the help regarding where to get rear bearings. Once I got the hubs off I decided to give them to my mechanic to refit the new ones. I don’t have a press and he really knows whet he’s doing. He speaks fluent Italian worked for Fiat, opened his own shop in 1985 and has Maserati training. He went off about the parts being made in China and is determined to find better ones.

    I have a new question as I'm finally getting to cosmetic stuff.
    What do you guys use to clean the leather seats and the diamond fabric under the hood?
    I started using the product in the attached picture on the seats and stopped because… well look at the picture – what is that blotching? The leather itself seems to be in fine shape but was very dirty. I guess so dirty it covered those reddish looking blotches because I didn't see this prior to "cleaning".
    The further down the more the blotching. The headrests and rear deck came out great. I hope I didn’t ruin something. I tested the stuff on an inconspicuous area first and it seemed to work fine. But not so well on the back seat so far.
    I’m not touching the under hood fabric until I know what to use.
    Thanks again for everyone’s help.
    Tony
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  3. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    #77 Thestash, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you so much for the speedometer gear information. I've taken the speedometer out but I'm stumped on how to get that gear off. It's behind the other gear. To get the other gear out it looks like the face has to come off. To get that out you must remove the pointer? I'm scared! Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated.
    It's a 300 klm/h version speedo.
    Thanks!
    Tony
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  4. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    822
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
  5. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    #79 c20500, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes you have to take the face off but it's not hard at all. The pointer is pressed on. just lift it off carefully and evenly. I might have used a thin fork or piece of metal to lift it off. only lift at the base of the pointer. Then you remove push out/pull the pin on the lower larger gear and remove the circlips on the other two. Just take lots of photos so you know how it goes back together.

    Regards,
    Charles
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  6. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I do not. They just look very much like porsche 928 ends. They are call tie rods I believe. The zf rack is a weirdo unit that may not have been used on any other car.. maybe longchamp/kylami. Are yours shot? the inner tie rod ball joint can be crimped/ tighten by a shop btw.

    Regards.
     
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  8. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    #81 c20500, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just a thing I ran into trying to trace down an annoying rear end suspension noise. I ended up changing the rear shock bushings by modifying a Chrysler 5/8" shock eye bushing. Lots of elbow grease but it restored the ride height in the back as the old bushings were worn and as much as 1.5 to 2.0 inches were lost as the shock length was effectively shortened. Unfortunately it did not get rid of the knocking/sound. I adjusted the track rods in on both sides a few mm and that tightened things up by making up for the little extra play that developed over 30 years. What a difference ! I was thinking everything from bushings to ujoints to ?? Not sure what the technical spec is on how tight, I just did it by feel and went in so the worst case was a slight toe in on the lower rear suspension arm.

    Charles
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  9. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Larry, I wanted to thank you for the A/C thread that you had before. My recirculating flap was not working and with your photos, I was able to locate the vacuum line and reroute it by using a t-line and hooking into the vacuum of another near by actuator. working great now, and luckily the foam is still in good condition!.

    Regards
    Charles
     
  10. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    Thanks charles!
    I did it. it was cake. I used a kitchen fork to pry off the pointer pin. Its the 20/29 gear for the 300 km/h speedo in case anyone else's gear's teeth are uncountable.
     
  11. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    #84 sowest, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Tony and Charles

    Thanks to both of you for all the good information that you are providing.

    Charles, I am glad that you got some help from my previous posts. It is comforting that all the bandwidth that I burned up had some practical benefit...;>)
    It has been some time since I was working on the evaporator unit. I wonder if it could be correct to "tee" the recirculation flap into another actuator. I didn't think that it would operate in parallel with another function. Could you have a faulty vacuum switch?

    Tony, you have the KM speedometer. It does make sense that the gear would be different. I am assuming that the sweep of the pointer would be the same, but that the calibration would differ. I'll attach a picture of my USA speedometer face. The sweep is approximately 270 degrees. On the main instrument housing, there is a label that says 1609 giri/miglia ----12872 imp/miglia. I am assuming that "imp" stands for impulse. 1609 X 8 = 12872. 8 impulses per turn?? I wonder if the sending units are different or the difference is part of the speedometer circuitry??

    I will have to go with Charles' tooth count. The only evidence that there was a gear on my unit was a small patch of brown crumbs.

    Aloha
    Larry
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  13. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    822
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Guys. I have a "newer" binnacle and speed gears for my car as I am going to switch is from KM to MPH. The binnacle has a bit of dust and junk behind the glass and I would like to clear it out. Is there an easy access for this?
     
  14. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    William,
    I'm not following. "speed gears"? The gears in the spedometer? Either way in order to get behind the glass the whole binnacle must come off. It's a lot easier then it shows in the manual. There are only 4 screws right in the front. I only had the 2 outer most screws. One just above the Emergency Pump switch and one just above the Door Locks switch. I took them out and pulled the binnacle toward me and that was it! Next things are four plugs and a vacuum hose. I never had to get out of the driver’s seat or even look under the dash.

    The manual says there are two more screws way in the back (towards the front of the car) but there are none on my ’79. Just these two studs that slip into their corresponding holes just below where the windshield meets the dash. Very cool design.

    Hope that helps,
    Tony
     
  15. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    #87 Thestash, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Has anybody removed their door handle? It’s all apart I just can’t figure out how to disconnect that white plastic lock linkage connector from the handle itself. I’m afraid to pry it off.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Tony
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  16. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,048
    I've been poring over the service manual in preparation for overhauling the transmission, if all goes according to plan I'll be renting a spot in a community workshop for a month or two, and will drive the car down next weekend (not this one) to get started on the work.

    It looks very simple, but I know it's always more involved than it looks.
    - Disconnect gear lever in car,
    - raise car on lift,
    - disconnect oil cooler lines (and plug with what?),
    - disconnect start/reverse cables,
    - remove dipstick assembly & "plug quickly" (plug size? plug type?),
    - remove fuel pump assembly (what to use to plug fuel lines?),
    - remove prop shaft (do I need to remove it entirely, starting at the diff, or just loosen it at the transmission end?),
    - remove exhaust pipes from side mufflers (?!? is this really necessary? and my side mufflers are straight pipes - no mufflers there),
    - remove transmission support and loosen transmission mounting, lowering on jack
    It says lifting the front of the engine can help to facilitate removal and refitting of the transmission. How can I lift the front of the engine? While the car is on a lift?

    Sorry if there are newbie questions. I'm more confident about doing the actual rebuild than getting it out of and back into the car. I've given myself a day to pull it, a day to take it apart, a day to clean it, two to three days to rebuild it, and a day to install it. Meaning about 2 months if I can only work a day or two each week ;-).

    Could someone who's actually done this give me (us) a blow-by-blow as well as any pitfalls or details to watch out for?

    The place where I'm renting thankfully has a lift as well as a tranny jack, so at least I'll have a good working environment.

    I plan on having the torque converter overhauled at SMR Motorsports in Canada, they seem to know what they're doing and charge about $200 for the work. Are there more reputable options preferred by other owners here?

    Looking forward to any info I can gather.

    Cheers,
    Thor
     
  17. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    The sweep looks identical to yours and there is no label anywhere.
     
  18. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    As I recall, that was just a ball joint and just prys off.
     
  19. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Thor,

    It actually is simpler than the directions imply.....The place I had do it used a pit instead, however, it shouldn't matter. The engine doesn't need to be lifted, however, it will pivot up/down on the rubber mounts a little to help pull the trans if needed if the header downpipe connections are undone (otherwise they will prevent movement of the engine)

    I'm not sure if plugging the hoses would be worth it as all the fluid will have to be drained. The pan has no drain plug so it will be messy as will be the torque converter.

    The exhaust can stay, and the drive shaft doesn't need to come out... just the flange needs to be removed moved to the side as I recall.... the fuel pump tray needs to be put to the side but no connections need to be undone.

    Many shops had reservations on pulling the qIII trans, however when it came time to do it, it was a non event as the mounts drop straight down.

    The shop had the trans out in around 1 hour. Little longer to reinstall.
    More time was spent replacing the trans cooler hoses and the routing was elaborate!

    My bolts holding on the driveshaft center bearing were not tight.

    Once rebuilt and if done to stock specs, you will be shocked as the difference between 30 year old friction materials and brand new ones will do to the smoothness and responsiveness (Lock up feature will be nearly seamless).

    The 727 is quite adjustable from the outside, even installing a shift kit as it can be done by just dropping the pan.

    Best of luck.

    Charles
     
  20. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Remember, the gear is for the odometer only and nothing to do with the speedo!!
     
  21. sowest

    sowest Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2006
    899
    Hi

    Sorry, I was off on an academic tangent...;>) I do see that the gear is only for the odometer function, but the ratio of 29 to 30 teeth does not match the ratio of KM to miles, so I started wondering what else is different. I do see that the parts manual shows different drive gears in the gearbox. The impulse generator has only one part number. I may be remembering this wrong, but I thought that the Ferrari 80MPH speedometers simply had a limited sweep and they could be made "normal" by changing the faceplate.

    Tony

    The door link just "pops" off. The nylon piece just has a socket that snaps over the ball end of the metal link.

    Aloha
    Larry

     
  22. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    Thank you Charles and Larry,
    I was able to pop it off. I'm afraid to force things.

    I'm usually not this dense but now that wire is a mystery. Is it a plug?
    I feel really stupid. I'm tugging and prying but again afraid to apply too much force unless I'm exactly sure where to apply that force.
     
  23. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,048
    Hi Charles,

    thanks so much for the answers. Two additional details -

    1. When you say "header downpipes" do you mean loosen the headers from the block, or loosen the exhaust pipe from the end of the headers?

    2. Considering all the trans cooler hoses and such, is it generally recommended to replace these when rebuilding the transmission? I'm not sure if the PO had replaced them or not, but will check.

    oh - one other thing - since the pan has no plug, should I just loosen the bolts around the pan with something underneath to catch the trans fluid, or is there a better way (i.e. less messy)?

    Cheers,
    Thor


     
  24. Thestash

    Thestash Karting

    May 8, 2011
    196
    Wappingers Falls, NY
    Full Name:
    Tony Pistachio
    #96 Thestash, Dec 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK. I got it. There's a cotter pin! The wires appear to be connected to a pickup that senses the magnet when it swings by.
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  25. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    822
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Hi I have changed the speedometer from KPH in my Swiss origin car to MPH as I am in the UK. I bought a complete instrument cluster but was advised at the time of purchase that I would need the complete link through to the transmission as the gearing was different. I cannot comment beyond that except that this was through Joedro (Joe) who sells online and dismantles QPIIIs . If you need to you could question him on this point in more detail as he appeared to be more knowledgeable.

    Best

    Wm
     
  26. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    822
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    A few questions that came up on my thread in case there are answers here.

    1. Diamond material to the sides of the motor. Where can we get this and if not then what is a suitable replacement.
    2. What is the best replacement for the felt in the trunk etc. I know this was discussed on one of these threads but I can't remember where
    3. The U shaped rubber beading that holds the diamond material to the fender. Where can I get this
    Thanks again!
     
  27. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,048
    I'll be pulling the transmission this Saturday to do the rebuild and install a TF-2 shift kit.

    There are still a few details I'd like to know.

    1. I see in the videos from Southwest Automatics that Peter replaces pretty much all of the bushings in the transmission - the direct drive, oil pump, tail, along with several others, yet in the rebuild kit I bought there don't seem to be any bushings, only gaskets, seals and the like. Should I be replacing the bushings as well? I don't have a press, but can ask a local shop to press them out for me in the event I should replace them.

    2. I've searched high and low, and cannot find any automotive or industrial shop with a spring compressor (to remove the clutches, etc). Can I simply use f.x. 3 big C clamps and keep them evenly tensioned in order to remove & replace the clutches and snap ring?

    3. I have to disconnect the prop shaft from the output shaft at the rear of the transmission to pull it, and I wonder if it's under tension, or if there are any additional tips to disconnecting it. I plan on marking the two surfaces so that they go back together in exactly the same way.

    4. On some cars, the mounting bolt pattern on flex plate/torque converter is asymmetrical, and they should be marked prior to disassembly to make reassembly easier. Is this the case on the QP3?

    5. I want to send the torque converter out to be rebuilt. Is there any place people here know and recommend? I have an offer of $180 at SMR Transmissions in Canada.

    Hoping this goes smooth, it's been a while since I've tackled such a big job.

    Cheers,
    Thor
     
  28. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,048
    #100 Quattroporte3, Dec 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Charles, you may just be a genius ;-)

    We spent about *5 hours* today getting the transmission out of the car. It was not a simple straightforward operation by any means, although if you've done it a few times, I'm sure it would be a lot easier when you know what to look out for.

    About 2 of those hours were spent chasing down stupid things and scratching our heads trying to figure stuff out. The poor car was like a yo-yo on the lift as we tried to get access to bolts and stuff. Several things in the official service manual didn't match my car, but that's to be expected as it was probably written well after mine was built.

    Another half hour was spent when I went to replace a short fuel line stub that was rotten and had started leaking. I thought there was a one way check valve between the fuel tank and the pumps - well there isn't! So we had a festive fountain of 98 octane gasoline (at $9.50/gallon) spraying all over the garage floor while we frantically searched for a bucket (thankfully we found one and managed to collect most of the gas). Being a Boy Scout as a boy, I had already cut and prepared an identical stub of new fuel line and had it ready, although it was quite a scene trying to get it pushed onto the fuel line nipples while all of this was going on. While it sounds funny now, it was a bit demoralizing on all of us at the time.

    I'm currently writing a summary of everything we did and in what order, in case it can be of help to others, but here are a few points that differ from advice I've found online and in the manual:

    1. there are no clips holding the gear selector and kickdown linkage as the manual states, they are connected by a grooved metal pin that fits in and is held by a rubber grommet that sits in the connector plates. A simple twist with a flat bladed screwdriver was all that was needed to disconnect them. Seems easy when we figured it out, but it took us 20 minutes to figure it out....

    2. while the engine will tilt on it's mounts to facilitate removal of the transmission, we found that the starter motor hits the steering rack long before any meaningful tilt is attained. So we removed the starter. Additionally, the front of the oil pan hits the front cross member as well as one begins to tilt the engine. So this doesn't really seem to work. Didn't for us at any rate. We never got enough tilt to do anything meaningful.

    3. the manual says to remove the tranny first, then the torque converter. Well, to do that you have to either be able to tilt the engine/transmission enough to pull it off of the torque converter, or have enough clearance rearward to do the same thing. Neither exists - the tilt isn't enough to pull it off, and the clearance rearward is restricted. So we ended up pulling it back an inch or two in order to get access to the torque converter mounting bolts, loosened these and pulled the converter off of the engine (with the weight of the tranny on a jack all the while). When we did that the whole thing came out easy as pie. It's sitting on the bench now.

    We didn't try loosening the headers, as it really didn't look like it would help us achieve the clearance we needed. The exhaust is nowhere near the transmission, so I don't know why the manual states it needs to be removed. Getting the dipstick tube mounting tab off of the bolt it's screwed to on the bell housing was also a major challenge. The nut came off easy enough, but finding room to get the tab loose (which is necessary in order to pull the tube out of the tranny, which has to be done in order to gain enough play to pull the whole thing rearwards so you can unbolt the torque converter - the dipstick tube is in the way otherwise and blocks rearward movement) was a challenge.

    One thing that was nice was how the people helping (actually I ended up helping them, I was in over my head on this one) kept commenting about all the great little details on the car, like the inboard rear brakes, the rear prop shaft stub, mount and balance system, the handbrake adjuster, suspension stuff, etc. Apparently it has a lot of very clever and advanced technology, even for a 30 year old car. :)

    Another positive find, was that the rear engine seal is dry as a bone and everything looks perfect. The valve body and pistons look brand new, fluid was clean, no particles or burnt smell. I'm pretty certain there's almost no friction left on the clutches based on how it drives, but it looks very good so far.

    If I'm not too tired tomorrow I plan on going back and getting started on the teardown, first by washing the outside of the casing, then putting it on a bench and taking it step by step. First the extension housing, then the oil pump, and we'll see how far I get.

    Any further tips/advice is very welcome!

    Cheers,
    Thor



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