News

Quattroporte III catch-all thread

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Quattroporte3, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,045
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello All...

    This is kind of funny, but certainly not fun! The other day I was installing the rear PS exterior door handle on my 82 QPIII.
    I thought this was going too easy given the tight quarters to install the mounting nuts, while holding the handle such that
    the exterior door handle gasket stays in place as well. I got all done, made sure the door knob was not in the lock position
    and shut the door! When I attempted to open the door by pushing the square push button on the exterior handle, the whole
    thing basically blew apart inside the door... Upon inspecting the remains, these things are/were made of plastic and pot metal.
    I guess 37 years has taken its toll! Fortunately, MIE does have replacements... As I said, funny, but not fun!

    Jarle: Have not heard from you in a while - how is your car coming along?

    Mike
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,320
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    I would start by removing the spark plugs and putting in a generous amount of Mystery Oil into each cylinder. Let the oil soak in for a few days and the hand turn the engine about 90 degrees. Put more Mystery Oil and let it soak again for a few days. Now you are ready to hand rotate the engine (in the normal direction of rotation!) several times to make sure the engine "feels" right. If everything seems ok then it is time to change the engine oil and filter.

    Still with the spark plugs removed; disconnect the fuel pump (either the fuse or relay) and use the starter to rotate the engine. I like to install a mechanical oil pressure gauge at this point and rotate the engine with the starter several times until oil pressure is indicated. You have now primed the engine with fresh oil with minimal engine stress as the spark plugs are removed. You should check that the ignition is operational at this point. Your car should have electronic ignition therefore timing should still be ok.

    The next step is the fuel system. This will required the most work as the old fuel will have degraded and you want to make sure none of the old stuff gets sucked into the engine. At a minimum remove and clean the gas tank, and replace any fuel filter, including the one inside the tank (if there is one on the QP3). The four carbs will need to be taken apart and cleaned and the accelerator pumps replaced as they are most likely hard and brittle. The fuel lines between the carbs are likely hard as plastic ... replace them. Put fresh fuel in the tank but before connecting the line to the carbs run the fuel pump with the line going into a canister. This should clean anything that was left in the fuel lines. Make sure the fuel looks nice and clean. Put a fuel gauge and test for fuel pressure of around 3 psi. Connect the fuel line to the carbs, start the car ... and pray.

    You will get a lot of smoke, do not be alarmed. Some of that Mystery Oil ended up in the exhaust and will need to burn.

    Ivan
     
    CharlieA likes this.
  3. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
  4. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,045
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Looking good Jarle… Keep us in the loop!

    Mike
     
    CharlieA likes this.
  5. theMASERATIbeast

    Apr 7, 2019
    3
    Los Angeles
    MrMark and CharlieA like this.
  6. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
    Struggling a bit with detaching the oil pump from the crank. Anyone done this? Have proper puller, tried heat and all the tricks in the book. No can do.

    All tips received with thanks
     
  7. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
    After several heat cycles we got it off.
    That gear is a tough sucker that is for sure.
    Tackling the liners is the next job in line.
    As well as bebuilding the calipers in front.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    MrMark likes this.
  8. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
    MrMark likes this.
  9. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,045
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Jarle...

    Looking good!!! I to have my front brakes off my QPIII and disassembled completely. I will send a picture
    hopefully this evening. I am also working on putting my central electronics box back together now that the metal
    housing as been painted (I think I sent pictures earlier)..

    Now a few questions I hope you can assist me with:

    1. Have you removed your rear calipers? If so and given they are inboard (close to the differential), how
    difficult was it and any tips?

    2. In the central fuse box (under the passengers feet), there are 10 fuses located in a plastic housing. Here is what I found upon
    disassembly: 1 - 16A, 2 - 16A, 3 - 16A, 4-16A, 5 - 25A, 6 - 16A, 7 - 8A, 8 - 16A, 9 - 9A (blown), 10 - 25A...

    When I check the documentation for these central fuses, I find the following:
    1 - 16A, 2 - 16A, 3 - 16A, 4 - 16A, 5 - 16A, 6 - 16A, 7 - 3A, 8 - 3A, 9 - 5A, 10 - 5A

    Many years ago, I bought a spare central electronics box with all the parts and pieces. When I looked at
    the fuses and their amperage, they were almost the same as what I found on my car. They were not like
    in the documentation for the central fusebox.

    So, the question is what is on your car?

    Thanks.... and as always, keep us in the loop on your car!

    Mike
     
  10. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,045
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    So far there have been no replies regarding my question on fuse amperage in the central fuse box.
    But I am forging ahead as best as possible. Several months or so ago, I posted pictures of my central
    electronics package metal housing box after I painted it. Below is a picture of the box and all its
    components re-installed. I still have some cleanup in replacing some hardware, and attaching the
    cover, as well as inserting the fuses themselves. I am not expecting any issue with this. (I hope)...

    If anybody is contemplating this work, it is really not that bad. I recommend taking lots of pictures before
    disassembly. I wish I had taken more pictures than I did. But with the help of the wiring diagram,
    an absolute must, I was able to accomplish it. Be very careful with the white and grey multi-pin
    connectors that attach to the 101, 102, BOTIQ, BOTIL, and DEFIL boxes. The plastic on these connectors
    seems to have deteriorated over the years and can be a bit brittle. Unfortunately, I did not have a method
    to test the black boxes (101, 102, BOTIQ, BOTIL, and DEFIL) before re-installing them, but that will be somewhat
    obvious whenever startup occurs.

    I am wondering how hot this whole electronics package gets when electrified. Heat could be a contributing factor
    to the deterioration of the connectors, given the whole packages location in the passenger footwell and covered
    by carpeting. I may make some adjustments when I go to install it to try and dissipate the heat a bit more, but
    we'll see...

    Mike
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    MrMark likes this.
  11. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    Greetings to Quattroporte III owners/fans -
    I've long been impressed by the Q-III since the car at several at Concorso Italiano shows when it was held at Quail Lodge. I finally acquired a 1980 just over a year ago. The seller* got nearly everything working (!) I've improved some of the systems, smoothed the paint and generally enjoyed the car. After I recently hit a "milestone age", it seems time for a younger, more-skilled owner to take over.
    The only promotion so far has been at local car shows, but I've just created a detailed webpage on the car:
    http://1980maserati.com/
    and would appreciate comments or advice before putting it on FerrariChat or eBay. The asking price is the total of the purchase price and expenses since then - negotiable, of course.
    Thanks!
    Bob S.
    * he told me about this forum on FerrariChat
     
  12. theMASERATIbeast

    Apr 7, 2019
    3
    Los Angeles
    Looks great Bob! Very in-depth and informative, just what I would want if I were a potential buyer. May I suggest considering submitting it to bringatrailer.com? Yours would be the first Quattroporte III on there, and would be a good standard for future Quattroporte sellers (if anyone would want to part with there's). But in any event, I think the information you have provided looks great, and I wish you the best with your sale. I hope you got to enjoy the car!
     
  13. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    Thanks for the encouragement! I registered with Bring A Trailer about 6 weeks ago and made a submission, but we had no agreement on a reserve price. Never got a reply to my request for an explanation. A Quattroporte III sold on BAT last week - first, I think, in a long time. I'll put it on FerrariChat soon, then probably eBay.
    Bob S.
     
  14. MrMark

    MrMark Karting

    Apr 3, 2013
    126
    Louisiana, USA
    Other places you can advertise the car online are the maseratinet.com club classifieds and the for sale section on Enrico's Maserati pages. IIRC, both are free.
     
  15. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    Thanks for these tips!
    Bob S.
     
  16. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    Hi -
    Maseratinet is not free. I sent basic details to Enrico, but it may take a while to see it listed. BTW, I did not know how extensive his Maserati site is! A great resource. It seems Hemmings will soon have an auction function, so I'll try that. I subscribed to the Hemming's "catalog" as early as 1975 and only changed to digital 18 months ago. My Alfa Sprint Veloce was on the cover of one of their magazines a few years ago, after I sold it back to the original owner. When I had it, the Alfa was in a special Giugiaro display at Concorse Italiano - photo coming when I find it!
    Bob S.
     
    MrMark likes this.
  17. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
    Sorry for not answering so quickly Mike! Not in here that often. You can reach me quicker by email if you want. Send me a PM.
    I have not removed rear calipers yet, will take out entire rear subframe with everything attached, but that is my next project.
    Will post some pictures ASAP where you see what we are currently working on.

    The electronics I have not yet tackled, since the car was working 100% electrically when I stopped using it some years ago.
    When I have it down from the lift, I can check fuses, but is difficult now.
     
  18. CharlieA

    CharlieA Karting

    Nov 4, 2013
    122
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jarle Adolfsen
    We have started on the engine again, and this time the dreaded liners.
    The Classic V8 liners are viewed as a nightmare, though this far we have not had any huge problems.
    We made our own tool to remove the liners, if you look at the pictures you quite easily how we have made it.
    Removed 6 liners in 2-3 hours.

    Trying to share a video of our tool in work here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vs1j24hayv8uu68/2019-07-13%2021.01.28.mp4?dl=0

    We are removing all 8 liners, changing 3 of them, cleaning all surfaces and putting the others back in again.
    Luckily for us, the block looks more or less perfect, no need to to do a lot of work before we put it back again.

    We have a plan for heating the block up, and cooling the liners. Will certainly share when we start on this after the vacation.

    Mike, seems like you are getting to grips with the electrics! 3 of my doors do not raise their windows.
    Will be a different project :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    MrMark likes this.
  19. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
  20. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    65,186
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
  21. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    The paint is much faded and was rough when I got the car. Hand-rubbed with polishing compound, then waxed. The paint is smooth, "original" and the least-attractive aspect of the car, I think is easier and more straight-forward to fix paint and minor rust than the interior, complex mechanical & electrical systems of a Quattroporte!
    Bob
     
    staatsof likes this.
  22. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
  23. BobS.

    BobS. Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    18
    Burbank, California
    Full Name:
    Bob Schmitt
    The auction at Barnfinds was not successful, so it's the same location, but now switched to "Make Offer" with my (reduced) asking price of $11,000. https://barnfinds.com/bf-auction-1980-maserati-quattroporte-iii/
    Last offer is only 50% there!
    There are two other Quattroporte III's getting major service at our local independent Alfa shop, Alfa Italia.
    Bob S,
     
  24. jamespeter26

    jamespeter26 Rookie

    May 9, 2019
    17
    Rome, Italy
    Full Name:
    Peter
    This thread contributed significantly to my decision of purchasing a 1982 QP III and I’m absolutely delighted with this car for many of the reasons already discussed here. I thought a good way to pay back the excellent advice I found here would be to contribute with my own experience working on this car.

    One of the few electrical appliances that didn't work was the rear, heated window. Tracing back this issue to a faulty Tedel 103 was very easy, after testing the relay and fuse (both working well) and then swapping the rear Tedel 103 with the front one, that control the heated windscreen (which was working well).

    Now that's typically not a good news, because used Tedel boxes are outrageously expensive and rare to find, and I didn't want to invest $100 or more in what is really a $4 worth of 30-year-old, basic electronic components, which would anyway fail me sooner than later.

    I investigated the electrical wiring diagram, and it appears these Tedel 103 are no more than timers, controlling the switching pins of a relay, whose current pins send juice to the windscreen/rear window resistance. It didn't take me a lot of time to find out that there are timer-relays on the market, which combine both functions. I found at least two references that could work:
    • Beuler BU-509-TD (see below video for a very cool demonstration)
    • Hella 5HE 996 152-131 – however I’m not sure this is the correct version – what you need is a “delay-off” timer, not a “delay-on”.


    I chose the Beuler because I wasn't 100% sure the Hella 131 was actually the delay-off version, and also because the Hella is specced for 20A while Beuler goes up to 30A (knowing that the fuse for the heated windscreens is 25A). This $20 relay removes the need for a Tedel 103, by replacing it with a modern, widely available part, which is probably much more reliable as well.

    Installing this relay requires a small modification of the electric fusebox wiring which is very easy. The Beuler (and in my understanding the Hella as well) imperatively requires permanent +12V on pin 30 and ground on pin 85 in order to operate correctly. Otherwise it will just not work.

    On the other hand, a regular Bosch relay allows current to flow in either direction between pins 30 and 87, and the typical set up in a QP III is that pin 87 is connected to the fused +12V while 30 is connected to the utility.

    Aside from that small difference, the Beuler pinout is identical to an ordinary Bosch relay: when current is applied between 85 and 86, the relay allows utility current to flow between 30 and 87 (and also has a normally-closed pin 87a, which I didn't end up using). When a temporary current is applied between pins 85 and 86, this initiates a timer which will allow current between 30 and 87 for a given period of time. The actual delay is adjustable after measuring my original Tedel 103, I found that it would power the heated windscreens for exactly 3 minutes. That’s a bit short by modern standards, but for the sake of originality and authenticity I adjusted the Beuler to 3 minutes as well.

    The small mod required in the electrical boxes is to modify the position of four female connectors (see illustration below). These modifications are identical for the front (hood) and rear (trunk) fuseboxes. When I speak about the relay socket, this is the A relay socket (front box) and the C socket (rear box), and the Tedel socket is the central position where the Tedel 103 box is installed.

    1. Unscrew the fusebox and open it to uncover the wiring
    2. Under the relay socket, swap the female connectors between pin 30 and pin 87, in order to have pin 30 connected to the fused battery +12V, and 87 to the heated windscreen (green arrows below)
    3. Then remove pull out the other three female connectors (85, 87a and 86) from the relay socket, some of which are connected with the Tedel socket (in that case, remove the corresponding connectors from the Tedel socket as well and discard these wires)
    4. Then, from the Tedel 103 socket, pull the ground female connector (black wire) and insert it in the relay socket, in position 85, and pull the switch female connector (violet wire in the front box, brown wire in the rear box), and insert it in the relay socket, in position 86 (blue arrows below)
    5. This leaves us, in each fusebox, with a disconnected blue loose wire which I think was previously connected in position 87a. I really don’t know what this wire is used for, so I just wrapped it in electric tape and didn’t re-use it. Remember, in the previous configuration, 87a (normally closed) was most of the time connected to the unpowered, heated windscreen (which was in position 30), i.e. a resistance and then ground, NOT to the battery +12V. Leaving that blue wire in position 87a in the new configuration could cause some damage. In the front fusebox, there’s also another loose wire connected to fuse 5 or 6 because you now need only one fuse to power that appliance (instead of two in the previous configuration). So you need to remove the now-useless fuse, and replace the other (16A) with a 25A similar to the one used for the rear window.
    6. Now, you can simply adjust the Beuler relay for 3 minutes (max duration) and insert it in the relay socket, and that’s it. Works perfectly.

    Now, I have a few things that don’t work perfectly so I’m open to suggestions:
    • I noticed that, for both heated windows, the 25A fuse is a little bit underrated. Both the front and rear fuses blew after a few uses. That was already the case with my previous Tedel so I don’t think my new configuration is in cause. I am awaiting my new amperemeter and will measure exactly how much current these heated windows draw to help me decide what to do.
    • I also noticed that I now have a very small glitch when I turn OFF the headlights. The headlights turn off straight away, but half a second after turning them off, the instruments panel and dashboard illumination comes back on for a few milliseconds and then off again. This might be related to the loose blue wire which is no longer connected to anything, but I can’t tell for sure. If anyone has an idea?

    All the best

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    MrMark and Froggie like this.
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    65,186
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Good for you! Any ancient Italian electronics that can be replaced with modern stuff is very worthy endeavor.

     

Share This Page