Question about additional service at Major - oil pump drive chain and tensioner

Both issues are currently relevant to me as well. Curious to see answers to your questions.

 

David,

Here's the link you need with info about the TSB, and also a link to Ricambi where they have the specific parts listed.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115256

I'm in the exact same boat as you -- Speciale heading in for major service this winter. I had a similar conversation with Richard and Fernando a couple of weeks ago.

I'm also confused a bit about what exactly is needed with regards to the oil pump chain/tensioner/bearings. My engine # is 32523, which would seem to indicate that the upgrades referenced in the TSB was already incorporated when it was built. However, it also seems that some of the parts may have subsequently been revised since that time, so some further upgrades may be needed?

I was planning to give Ricambi a call to see if they could explain, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe Daniel will chime in on this thread.

- Eric

 

I'll comment later. Headed out to hockey in 2 mins

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Have you watched the video series on Youtube: Ferrari 348 engine cam belt change? That should answer your questions as well as give you a rough idea of the difficulty level involved. Changing the tensioner blocks isn't hard, but it's a PITA to get to them. The oil pan has to come down which takes a while. Those stupid blocks cost a fortune, but worth it for piece of mind. If you have any questions after watching the videos, let me know.... I did it and have a happy engine and (as you'll deduce from the video). I ain't no trained mechanic. If you have any CEL issuses, it would also be the perfect time to do a gold kit. That will tack on more time and $$$, but it will be WAY easier with engine out of the car!

 

Er.....that should be "peace of mind" in the above note, not like "piece of a**". P.S.: I had the 348 parked behind you at the Reading Concour

 

Drop oil pan then remove the front cover. My 348 has the first production unit of the cam chain tensioner pad developed by SRI (Dave). Dave spent several months researching the material to use in this application and the testing he did on it was brutal to say the least. The testing is documented somewhere on this site. I have about 4300 miles on my engine since the pad replacement. Running like a champ. The products developed at SRI are top notch in every way.

". . . piece of mind." I think you got it right the first time.

 

The hockey game turned into a baseball game. Give him time.

 

I researched this a while back.

From memory the update to the timing/oil chain tensioner pad was to a material called Stanyl. Stanyl is made by a company named DSM in the Netherlands. I called and talked to the US supplier. There are different types of Stanyl, and the type used in the automotive industry for timing chain tensioners is Stanyl PA46 TW341 if I remember correctly. I tried finding a source that sold it in bar or block form, so I could have the pads machined, with no luck. The US supplier sells it in pellet form in 50/lb bags. I forget how much a bag was, something around $300-$400, but I don't remember exactly. You would need to have injection mods made to be able to reproduce the pads using the pellets. Do-able but not something I wanted to dive into full steam at that point, so I bought a very lightly used oil tensioner with the updated pad material, and a new timing chain pad. You can see how I replaced them staring towards the bottom of page 14 of my major thread. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/438576-348-engine-out-major-14.html

 

I picked up the bearing for the major right now and will be picking up a new SRI pad, but finding a new tensioner in not easy. Thoughts? (I have an early engine)

 

I did some research on the drive pulley timing chain tensioner.

Using the Renold patent number, 1.018.211, it turns out that part is used on a Jaguar XJ6, MGB, and a Triumph TR7. The problem is, even though the tensioner housing is the same the wear pad is not the same shape as on the 348.

This pic is of the Jaguar tensioner.
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I did some more digging and found that the Land Rover Defender uses the same Renold tensioner, and that the pad has a similar shape to the 348 wear pad. But.........the Defender pad doesn't appear to be offset and looks to be in the middle of the post. Where the 348 pad is offset on the post. The Defender pad could be offset, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I have no idea for sure.

The pic of the tensioner with the red zip tie thingy is the Land Rover Defender pad (part number ETC 5190)

The next pic is of my tensioner face down showing the wear pad offset I'm talking about.

Oh and there is one of these Land Rover tensioners for sale on fleebay Irland for
£1.99
Land Rover S3 DEF Timing Chain Tensioner 2 25 2 5 ETC 5190R | eBay
But again I have no idea if the pad on the post is offset or not???????? But for £2 quid for the whole thing it's worth trying it. Heck I've spent more on a glass of beer. Also the average prices I have seen for the Land Rover tensioners is £7-£45, or $10-$60 bucks.
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Nice research work, Ernie.

 

Thanks Mikey.

All for the benefit of the 348 Brotherhood. We gotta keep the cost of maintaining these things at sane prices. It really is amazing the amount of things that have been adapted from other makes, and platforms to be used on our cars. It would be nice if it wasn't such a scavenger hunt to find them.

 

Just to add to the Ernie's findings. I made a lot of research on these tensioners when I had a Triumph Stag (before the 348).

The manufacturers: Renold, Brampton, Sachs, AAC (France), Peugeot (genuine part), Rolon (avoid at all cost).

In addition to the cars mentioned by Ernie, it was also used in the Triumph Stag (2), Triumph Dolomite, Peugeot 204/304/404/504. As far as I know, the eccentric type (wider pad) was used on Triumph Dolomite Sprint and the Peugeots. However, all of these tensioners have a differently shaped pad (and shorter).

The pictures below are of the Peugeot tensioners (the picture of the genuine Peugeot one also shows body only of the Brampton tensioner). On the other pictures is an AAC tensioner. Excellent quality and has an "external" auto-tension ratchet which can be released using a flat screw driver (release mechanism seen in the small hole on the body).

Perhaps does not help much as it is the pad we want.
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Is there anything specific you'd like to know about the Rover tensioner?
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only the part number and if it fit the 348!

 

I do not know if it fits, but I have one sitting here if you want it.

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It's Rover ETC5190R. Shoot me a PM and I'll ship it to you.

 

Oh man!!!

Sorry for the SUPER late reply John, I apologize.

The mount for the pad, is it offset? Is the post (the part the spring fits inside) attached in the center of the pad plate, or offset more towards the edge of of the wear pad plate?

Again, my apologies for the year later reply.

 

I held it next to the stock Ferrari piece when I replaced the pad with the SRI one. They looked identical to me. For the $10-15 I spent on it, it might have been a very worthwhile part to use, but I choose the safer route.

 

Awesome.

Thanks John.

Me, I'm more daring. If I need to change mine out next time, I'm gonna give it a go. I'm pretty certain it's the same part Ferrari used. These guys have them for $22 or $43 for the OE version. http://rovahfarm.com/defenderengine25NApg4.htm.