Question about F430 Cam Variator failure

This is an old Mercedes issues where oil enters the harness and can destroy the ECU. Mercedes got around it by putting an oil block connector in line between the variator and the ECU.

The variator itself has no electrical connections. It is operated by a solenoid valve in the head. Is the tech recommending change of the variator or the variator control solenoid?

M

 

There was a similar issue, and associated recall, on my X's Mercedes C230. It was a cam position sensor (aka Phase Sensor) that would leak internally sending oil down the sealed wiring loom eventually ending up in the ECU, thanks to gravity, destroying it. The fix was to replace the sensor and put a short 3 inch inline series Male to Female connector just after the sensor. This M-F connector would stop future leaks from getting to the ECU through the wiring loom and was part of the Mercedes recall campaign.

OEM
Wet_Engine --> Sensor --> Wiring_Harness --> ECU

Recall Solution
Wet_Engine --> NEW_Sensor --> Wiring_Harness --> Male_Female_3"_Harness --> ECU

So I have seen this on other engines, and believe it. A M-F connector can be built for a small price using OEM quality connectors from AMP or whoever makes them for Ferrari. It would be a bandaid IMO and still require effort, but much less than replacing $750 parts (read further, I suspect the incorrect parts are identified greatly reducing parts cost). It is hard to believe that all 4 are leaking at the same time. Maybe you have found another weakness in the 430 that can be avoided by checking the connector annually for oil.

Now to the next issue: There is only one Variator / bank, 2x total per engine not 4. The Variator is a mechanical device with no electrical connector. I think you mean part# 28 EXHAUST SHAFT PHASE SENSOR. These are only $136 each from Ricambi. (same part that failed on the C320 with the same symptom and collateral ECU issues)

*Replacing the phase sensors should be a 20 minute job (1x bolt) with the cam covers off. With the engine assembled the intake ones are a quick job, easily accessed, no obstructions, electrical connector reasonable accessible. The exhaust sensors seem to share a bolt with the heat shield requiring the engine bay covers to be removed first, so maybe a 1hr job for all 4.

Inspecting these connectors for oil looks simple and easily accessible.

The Variators are more expensive, but not likely your issue based on your notes:
Ricambi (sponsor) has them for $713, part# 22.
http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=114202
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The last two 430 engines I have rebuilt had 4 variators..........................AND 4 control solenoids..............I haven't personally noticed the OP's problem, but it seems quitet feasible due to the pressure of the oil into the variator which could seep through the solenoid, I think that this is a classic "while we're there" situation however.

 

+1.

 

All 4 failing is most unlikely IMO, even one is puzzling. Last car I did had 55K+ without that issue being evident.

I have another customer with 85K and no issues so far.

 

Just checking a UK parts website the solenoids are 220 GBP plus tax which is approx. 350 USD plus shipping and any duty. Have you tried shopping round for the parts? You may be able to pick them up for less.

 

I430 Scud question. I have a shop telling me I need to replace all four Variator Solenoids (cost $7500) sayings the oil will wick up into my ECU(much bigger cost? ). Some additional info; My car only has 10,000 nearly new condition Check engine light is on... mechanic says numerous codes are showing and its a process of illumination
Is this BS or not? Please advise


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if code is on for the solenoid, then it is not BS. Pricewise, i don't know. seems a little high. I'd expecting somewhere around $4000 labor and parts.

 

..they claim they have to take the whole top of engine apart in order to get to things to do the job, and that’s why so expensive. They claimed it threw 100 different codes and have to work through them... car is rarely driven. Thanks and any additional input would be appreciated.


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Mine were replaced by the previous owner at Ferrari of Atlanta. Invoice was a little over $10k...

 

Usually if a Ferrari "throws" 100 different codes, it's a faulty main battery. If your battery has before weak or just old (5yrs+) replace it first. I'm sure a few of those 100 codes will be "Low Voltage" codes.
Only the valve covers come off which involves loosening the transmission mount crossbar

 

Just to throw in, I have the same issue with part 22, two of mine need to be replaced, on that bank, its been misfiring and has decimated the cat on that side, I need to replace that too.

It looks like they've redesigned the part maybe? since it has a new number? I'd hate to replace them only to have it happen again. Anyone know anything about rebuilding these?

Car has 37.5k miles, its been this way for a while, looks like 30000 or so miles may be the lifespan for this part?

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I know this an old thread, and the message I’m replying to is very old. But I just did my right bank solenoids because one was throwing a CEL, and I did the other while I was in there. So my thought is if Mercedes created a “oil block connector” can’t someone just fabricate one for the 430? How complicated can that part be? It’s just a pigtail wire connection… Does anyone know what this “oil block connector” looked like? Is just a different kind of plug? Does anyone know how it works?

 

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I think I found the answer…

These are the kits for the Mercedes solution: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-camshaft-solenoid-kit-genuine-mercedes-2761560790kt2

So essentially they are simply “sacrificial.” So you plug these in between the connection, they slowly fill with oil, and then you just change them.

What a simple and dumb solution. But effective!

These would be super easy to make as long as someone can find the source of the connection ends… If we find the ends, add the wires, and done!

Otherwise, you’d have to cut and strip a portion of the wire on the harness side, insert one of these, and make that the “sacrificial” piece : Twippo 16 AWG Waterproof Wire... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFF4Y7ZB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have used those generic connectors before. They’re easy to wire in. I had a connector melt and these saved me.

 

Just to clarify, the OP was referring to the solenoid wiring jacket which can get oil intrusion that leaks back inside the pigtail wire. The flat plane F136 motors had no variator issues, however the oil leakage into the wiring jacket is common. It will not affect the ECU. It's just oil and it generally doesn't "fill" the entire wire jacket. But, if the wires do get hard from the heat and break internally, then the motor will run like crap due to the lack of advancement of the variators, but that has nothing to do with the oil intrusion.

The issue is much more common on the Maseratis due to the average miles being much higher, thus exposing the wires to much more heat and age.

 

This is super interesting to me. I have heard tons of stories of people reporting the need to replace the solenoids due to the "presence of oil" in the wiring or the connector, even with no codes or running issues, on the basis of the risk of oil migrating to the ecu's and bricking them. That never made much sense to me though because its not like that oil is pressurized and sealed up all the way to the ecu in a way that would force oil into the ecu. I guess its possible, but just never sounded plausible. Are you saying that just because there is oil in a connector, there is no reason to automatically jump to a repair that could cost thousands? I've also wondered why an appropriate fix would not be to simply put a hole in the jacket somewhere (obviously not touching the actual insulated wires within the jacket) to allow an escape path for oil that has happened to migrate to that area of the wiring. The hole could even be somewhere inside the portion of the wiring that is in the cabin so there is no exposure to the elements. Why wouldn't that work to eliminate this "oil killing the ecu" risk? With all that said, I could see how oil in the connectors could possibly degrade the electrical performance of the solenoid/variator, but that seems like a problem that one could address when the car starts throwing codes or running badly, with no real risk of more expensive "downstream" damage.

 

Your skepticism sounds like mine, ha! I did the right side solenoids because I was getting the error. But that said, I expect the left to potentially do the same at some point. And while I’m not afraid to do the job again, it would be nice to reduce the urgency by experimenting with some bandaids. This whole “oil could get to the ECU” seems like another one of those “it could happen” with no examples of it having happened. That’s a LONG WAY to travel, and often against gravity because at least in my car, the oil would have to travel upward on the harness before going down to the ECU. So right, can’t we just let the oil drain somewhere? Can’t we just make some kind of sacrificial connection? Again, not to ignore the need for eventual replacement of the solenoids, but just to hold it over for a bit until we are in the valve covers again or something similar.

 

1. I have never seen a variator solenoid wire that didn't have oil in it.
2. I have never seen the oil travel so far as to make it's way to the ECU.
3. If the oil did somehow make it back to the ECU, what harm can oil do? It's not corrosive, it doesn't promote moisture (in fact it prevents it) and it will not conduct enough electricity to short anything out unless you have a SIGNIFICANT amount if metal material in it, in which case, you've got bigger things to worry about than oil intrusion!

Tinkering with these cars, I've seen so many myths that were born by correlation over causation. For example, an ECU fails for whatever reason, and during it's removal the tech discovers oil in the wire connected to the harness, leading him to believe the oil caused the failure. However, any electrical engineer would agree that it would be exceptionally unlikely that would be the culprit.