Question about Nick's larger-than-stock 308 radiator..

I installed one - the LARGER one. To get the Hayden fans, A/C condenser, and the larger radiator to fit behind a stock valance, I had to cut out the horseshoe frame mounts for the stock fan motors using a Dremel and several cutting disks. There was a LOT of playing with fan placement to make it all fit - its not easy, and there was an issue with the Hayden fan blades rubbing too close to the surface of the A/C Condenser.

The radiator did fit nicely at the bottom and at the top - although I did have one issue with the mounting of the A/C lines along the side. That mounting no longer fit. I did have to 'play' with the hardware combination necessary to secure the radiator at the top mounting points, and had some stock hardware left-over from the OEM configuration.

The ideal configuration for this radiator is to remove A/C from the car altogether, and mount the fans directly to the larger radiator with no air restrictions.

 

My apologies, missed seeing this thread yesterday. i have the 1:1 stock replacement and it fit fine. Seems to work well, but i got it late in the driving season so its cooling ability on hot days is still an unknown, but i am sure it will be great. It is very well made and good riddance to that heavy, leaky, cracking stock unit!

 

There was someone on here who changed to Kenlowe fans and I think it was quite simple

 

Has anyone here changed to one on the Mondial

 

How much does this radiator cost

 

http://www.alumrad.com/

These guys made me one to my spec, which was a little wider than stock (I removed the A/C), for my 80 308.... cost about $300.

Took some mods on my part to get it in but no more than it sounds like the thicker one from Nick's would require.

Might be able to make you one that drops right in as per OEM.

Just passing out options.

 

Thats a good price compared to the other, the only problem I have is being in the uk it would cost a lot to send mine over as a template

 

I did a lot of searching online looking at the differences between the two types of radiators. The "facts" are all over the place, but the gist of the story is that you have to compare weights of radiators when full of coolant to actually compare thier true weight. Aluminum needs larger thicker tubes, so for a radiator the same physical size, you actually have more coolant capacity, but less tubes. Once its hooked up and filled, your 10 pound savings could be lost when you pour in an extra gallon or so of coolant. Also, its very hard to show gains in cooling efficiency over a stock radiator. The brass composition radiators these cars came with have four rows of narrow tubes, making a very efficient radiator. No one owning one of these cars anywhere in the world has spoke of cooling troubles unless the radiator was clogged up or corroded. Even in 115F Texas.

One last issue is how long they last. Aluminum corrodes much more rapidly, so you will probably be looking at replacement within about 7 years. Give or take. They will not last the 30 to 40 years or more that a stock one will.

 

Stock is said to be 30 lbs, Nick's is said to be 15 lbs or so. It IS much lighter and my mechanic, David at KTR European Motorsports, hooked it right up and did like the quality of construction and lower weight. The car here is on the track a lot and on a 'diet.' Basic drop in and go yawner.

 

Well, I had replaced my radiator with a new one from a parts company...said to be the same as an OEM, but without the horse stamped on top (made by the same company who makes Ferrari radiators). Still had major cooling issues until I replaced it AGAIN with a real Ferrari radiator...of course this was after basically rebuilding the top half of the engine for $6000. This was all in NJ...so not 115F. Then moved to FL, engine still got a little hot...but not to the level it used to.

There was nothing noticably wrong with the first replacement radiator..not clogged or corroded.

308s are known for some cooling issues. When the 328 came out, they "fixed" the problem with a bigger radiator, placed on an angle for better air flow.

My radiator sure didn't last 30 to 40 years...not sure where you are getting those figures...but mine lasted 15 years.

 

I'm glad someone has looked into this thoroughly, maybe i'll think twice about the ali radiator

 

Our 2-row full core replacement radiator flows 35% more than the OEM unit & our high performance version flows 80% more than the OEM version.

The radiator is 30 lbs lighter than the OEM unit.
All inlets & outlets are located in the same location as the OEM unit.

Our radiators are hand built & some minor adjustments could be required due to variations from car to car. We took radiators from different years of 308’s & sent them to our manufacturer & then came up with a version that should fit all 308 cars.

We recommend Evans coolant in any aluminum engine (no water & antifreeze)

The alumrads are much different than what we are doing, he used to build units for me & they never fit correctly, yes they are cheaper in price & in build quality compared to what we are doing with our new radiators.

We also have a very serious 10 blade, 11-inch fan package that draws only 8 amps each that fit in the OEM mounting location along with our custom water pumps.

We work closely with our development partners for our cooling products for the Ferrari community & I also use them in my 308's.

 

No matter what radiator you have, the rest of the system has to be working at peak efficiency. Water pump, T-stat, and the system should be flushed out, block, etc. These cars are getting old, and many could have calcium deposits in the cylinder heads, which also make you run hot.

The next thing is removing the heat, and thats what the radiator is supposed to do. Little tubes carry the coolant across the flow of air, and the more tubes you have, the greater ability the air has to pull away the heat. Brass radiators generally have flat/semi oval tubes, to pack as many tubes in across the width/height of the radiator. By running flattened tubes, they can have more tubes and still have good airflow. The fins are designed to hold the tubes flat, as well as help carry away heat. Now on the 308, is also has more than one row of tubes. I can go look but I believe its got 4 rows. That makes a very efficient radiator. The mass of tubes allows good flow of coolant, while keeping the dwell time in the tubes long enough to shed heat.

Aluminum radiators use round tubes, because the metal is not as strong to hold a flat oval shape. because of this, you have less tubes. They generally make up for that by going thicker. The tubes are also larger, and hence carry more volume.

Why do I say 30-40 years? Because ive seen them last that long. Actually, some old cars from the 30's still have original radiators. Up here in Minnesota, they put calcium chloride down for road salt. Really corrosive stuff. In general, the radiators rot through from the outside before they will ever rot from inside. I have found keeping them clean and painted keeps them in really good shape, as well as changing coolant. A good radiator shop should be able to get the core clean using ultrasound, chemical cleaners, or rodding.

As to why the radiator you replaced wouldnt cool well, I think its possible you had other issues with the motor, as well as the possibility the radiator shop put a core in with less than 4 rows. IMO, the only reason they altered the design on the 328, was that emissions, by the time of the QV, had raised engines temps to a point where the original 308 radiator needed a bit more cooling capicity. But many people have stated not having troubles with these cars running hot, in places all over the world. Its just not been an issue until these cars have aged. So if its running hot, it has something wrong.

 

OK this isvery interesting, I am also looking at putting one of Nicks radiators in my 77, 308 and I would like to know if the extra capacity negates the weight loss? As for corrosion I was under the impression an aluminium radiator would last forever?

 

My advice, having gone through this, is unless you change the fans, you won't get significant cooling benefits from changing the stock rad to an aluminum.

I had Ron Davis Racing fabricate an aluminum raditator for me. Yes, it is much lighter than stock, but that in a sense degrades cooling capacity. Yes it holds more coolant than the stock unit. But that also degrades cooling capacity.

I'm no engineer, but have been working on cars for some time and my experiences and simple logical deduction brings me to the understanding that lighter materials equals less mass equals less material available for cooling purposes. Great coolant volume equals greater quantities of hot liquid in the radiator at any given time needing cooling. The aluminum setup gives you both these conditions. I also have considerable hydronic home heating design and installtion experience and this is the same principal as cooling a Ferrari.

The basic problem is airflow, or lack thereof. Fix that, and you fix the cooling issue. I decided to do the radiator also, as well as add a puller fan to the rear engine bay oil cooler, just because I wanted to do this once and get it all over with. I didn't want to have a quesiton in mind when I took the car away one weekend that I should have/could have done the radiator.

Also, my car has/had no electrical issues and no other engine problems or corrosion or clogs causing it to run hot. I ruled all that out ahead of time, and then made the upgrade. Haven't regretted it since.

I posted some pictures of my setup, search for my posts and you will come across them. If you need any other informaiton, let me know and I will be happy to send you photos or other information.

Also, changing the stock muffler to a Tubi greatly cooled the engine bay area. When the car was at operating temps, if you touched the stock muffler you would singe the skin off your hand. With the Tubi, you can almost lean on it while the car is at operating temps.

Good luck,
Phil

 

Yeh, well what do you know anyway... Just kidding. Clearly you are more knowledgable on these matters than I. My 308 ran great with no problems the first year I had it...then came the problems. I don't want to relive the pain or I would post in more detail the dealing I had with the radiator. True, the 1st replacement had 2 banks, which the seller said was more efficient...Ferrari said "Ah, no!"...they were right because the Ferrari rad was much more efficient. Ultimately I don't know what the problem was. Whatever it was, I tell myself that all the repairs were necessary...problem gone (money too). But she's running great thanks to Tim Stanford in Florida and Karl Troy in Charleston.

I was thinking about the aluminum rads, though. I too thought they would last longer.

 

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I was thinking about the aluminum rads, though. I too thought they would last longer.[/QUOTE]


From what I've read they should be ok and last, but using just coolant and no water

 

Just e-mailed Nick Forza and he is sellling me enough Evans + coolant to change over my system. i should have done this from the onset... in hindsight (which is always 20/20 or course).