Porsche owners: disqualified for reasons of possible bias!!** Non-Porsche owners: Do you think if Porsche would have put the engine in the right place (i.e. in front of the rear axle) in it's first cars that the long line of 911s would not exist; either being replaced by a similar legacy of Boxster/Cayman type cars or maybe extinction of the line all together? **just kidding, you can tell me how stupid I am for asking this.
What about the Volkswagen Beetle and Fiat Cinquecento? Millions of Germans and Italians can't be wrong-right? Rear engines rule!!!! I have a 911SC, love it, but I don't think the rear engine is the sole reason why they are popular;the racing pedigree/engineering of the 911 is what makes the car attractive. As I said on another thread, the Cayman/Boxster are excellent track cars, but they need more hp for the $$$. Look at the engineering of the 911 as a whole; the classic 5 dial arrangement with the tach front and center; the ignition key on the left so that your right hand is free to throw the tranny into first in case you need to make a quick getaway; the fact that the 911 was one of the first cars to have a galvanized body, etc. The car up until the 964 model was largely hand built. The big changes to make the 911 more civilized (964) such as a/c that actually worked, coil springs in lieu of torsion bars for a quieter ride, power steering, etc. came as a result of perceived competition from Japan (Supras, 300ZXs, etc.). It was a beautiful day here in NY and I saw an early boxster pull out of mall parking lot-the driver got on it to merge with traffic and I have to tell you the car sounded like ****....sounded nothing like the growl from an aircooled flat six.... If Porsche had a line of mid-engined cars as well built/engineered/etc. as well as the original 911 then I think Porsche would have been just as successful.
If the original 911s were mid-engined, then 1. They would still be around as mid-engined to this day 2. The boxter/cayman would be front engined instead, akin to the 944, etc. Maybe front mid-engined.
I'm currently thinking of picking up a nice 993, the last of the air cooled 911s. Flawed genuis as they say about Porsche's foray into rear mounted flat sixes. I think Porsches wouldn't have stood out as much without the quirky nature of cars such as the 356/speedster or subsequent "901" models. I guess without the 911, would we have seen them come out with evolutions of the 550 spyders and 904? Too bad they never made flat 8 or flat 12 mid engined road cars. Thank goodness Bootsy Porsche designed that first 911; it went on to define Porsche to an entire generation of people. Back to scouring the used car market for some decent 993 C2 models; boy are they getting rarer by the minute!
If I respond directly to classic308, is it a violation of the requested restriction placed on this thread? Don't damn the boxsters "sound" until you drive one and get the revs up. Their "note" is not for people on the roadside, it is for the driver. And only comes out when you drive it hard. Then the intake gloriously howls its battle cry in your ear. Others will just hear it whisper by. That is a good thing, at least IMO. The boxster never has been a "hey, look at me car", either in appearance or sound. It is about the driver; let the rest of the world entertain themselves.
I doubt that. By the 1980s Porsche was producing 911s in huge numbers. I'm not sure at what point they abandoned the 356 'workshop' approach, but they were mass-produced by the '80s if not earlier. Probably so. I think Porsche was trapped by tradition, and still is. However technology has probably overcome the flaws of the original design. Wonder why Porsche has done so much engineering on the traction control ('PASM') front... RPM Sports Cars in Houston has had a perfect dark red one in inventory for months. Also check check DuPont Registry, Premier Cars in Springfield, MO, and the Porsche web site. They made tens of thousands of them, probably because they're great cars. Even Sport Auto (in NC - where I bought my 328) always seems to have a couple. And don't call Butzi Porsche "Bootsy" or you will be asked to leave the Porsche dealership.
The engine is in the right place. If it weren't for the early 911's, no one would have learned how to drive backwards.
I always assumed that Porsche went directly with the rear-engine configuration because they started with the VW layout and that the rear-engine layout of the VW made sense for a low-performance coupe because it provided lots of interior room and lower costs. However, according to this, the original intent was for the 356 to be mid-engine! They then reverted back to the rear-engine/VW layout for pragmatic reasons, not realizing that they would get locked in to that decision by their own success. http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={EC5DEEBA-8EB1-4D68-89DF-A540F6A6C580}
Well, there may well be some specific sports car benefits to it: a.) you can't beat that rear weight distribution for traction off the line b.) it also makes for great braking traction c.) nobody will complain that the car "pushes" too much d.) it makes for pretty good space utilization - not many cars that small have as much useful room e.) it leaves a lot of heat & noise behind you, and that short drivetrain saves power losses f.) it makes for a nice cool place to keep your gas, battery and luggage g.) with the air cooling, there was not the problem of piping hot water down the length of the car (note Ferrari went from front radiator to twin rears with the Testarossa over the BB) h.) without a radiator, they could make a natural front airfoil shaped hood with low drag Maybe there really was more to this than just VW tradition. Oh, and I almost forgot to add that for years the Porsche fans proved to be unwilling buyers of the front and mid engine attempts. Guess that is changing now.
Which explains their better than average 0-60 times on a Lb/HP comparison, superb brakeing, and superiority on a race track. The real downside is/was trailing throttle oversteer and resulting back end swapping. If only Pinninfarina had done the original styling
I have driven Boxsters at Porsche track days; sorry, not my cup of tea, at least the early cars. I would buy a 987. To each his own.....one of the PCA DE instructors has an early Boxster with either the 3.4 or 3.6 from a 996 stuffed in the engine bay-now that's the way a Boxster S should perform-and sound. I'm not one of the guys who says the Boxster is a chick car (or as someone said "the car of choice for gay hairdressers"); a standard 987 is a beautifully balanced car and yes I think I prefer the looks of the Boxster to the Cayman.
Having been in a number of 911s (1984 and 1987 among them), I would say the gaps are just too good and the panels too precisely spec'ed to compare to something like a Ferrari 'Daytona', whose panels were hammered on wooden forms. Even the Boxers were fabricated in this way. I won't refute Peter Morgan, but I'd like some clarity around what aspects of the car were still constructed by hand in the 1980s.
I recommend that you sign up to Rennlist and start to monitor the 993 section, not just the classifieds. There are any number of members who have gorgeous cars, fully fettled and then some, who get the bug to make a change and offer their cars. Since many of them are a known quantity, and the owners have posted about their work along the way, you could find a pretty good car, and the prices may not be stupid. But, always, always get an independent and competent PPI and check the car yourself. Also, buy the 993 Bible. Worth every penny.
If we started a club and charged dues, we would both be driving Enzos!!! The older 911s will make a better driver out of you, but not before it shows you who the boss is!
Thanks for the heads up Bullfighter. Had an eye on a black 1995 C2 6spd but, not liking the tan interior. I should have known better to mix up 'Butzy' for 'Bootsy.' Just a case of mixing it up with Bootsy Collins and an eternity since I last had to reference Butzy Porsche!
Good points! Definately gonna look into the Old(aircooled) Testament! hehe Came across an RS America last week and was tempted! Remember pining for one when they first came out. Recently finding myself looking at the Boxsters and seeing if the GF won't mind that over the Alfa Spyder Quadrofoglio for bit more coin.
