I am a newbie here, I now own a baby ferrari, F430, first one. Hope I can get a long well in here with you folks. Let me know if you guys are meeting up or something in chicago area, I will show up. Ok, here is my question, maybe it is a dumb question to ask, but I've always had this question in my mind and some of you probably know the answer aleady. CGT or Enzo, which one is really faster? I mean overall at the track, highway - high speed, corners, which one is more an ultimate super car? Every time, I read magazines or talk to someone, I get different answers.. I am sure this discussion has been here before, but if someone can answer this question once it for all, I will just take that answer.. any opinions? :-0
Welcome to FChat! Glad you find your way here and I'm looking forward to see that F430 one day. Awesome car! I'm no Enzo nor CGT specialist and anxious to hear what others might say. But here my $ 0.02: Being a biased Ferrari nut I would always root for the Enzo not the CGT. Especially a car with these exotic looks and which carries the name of the founder. As far as technology is concerned I *heard* (not sure that is really the case) that the CGT beats an Enzo around the Nuerburgring Nordschleife, which is probably the ultimate automotive test for a sports car.
Welcome FF, There will always be a see-saw amongst contenders for the top performing cars. But it seems that everyone's favorite target is Ferrari, wonder why? Ferrari has the image and the name recognition. I am not saying that Ferrari is always the best. Being the best is a fleeting prize, what criteria is it judged by and how long can you hold it? It is an easier task to design a car, with a quantified target of performance to match or beat, you know when you can stop spending money and have the bragging rights for a while. It is also much easier for someone like say Porsche, Audi/Lambo or even Ford (in the 60's) to simply outspend, after all speed can be greatly augmented by cubic dollars, you just hire the best and brightest or contract them to build the car for you, like Ford did. Use exotic materials and technology without regard for the cost. In racing, Lambo has never been able to compete with Ferrari (or anyone else for that matter), other than one guy in OZ that had a few spotty wins. Porsche has had enough cars entered that they begin with the odds in their favor and at times driven their cars like battering rams to eliminate the competition and get their other car(s) to the front. There were two incidents like this in IMSA GTP that I recall. Nissan did that too, in the SCCA Runoffs one year, two of their drivers got suspended for a couple of seasons (should have been permanent), I don't remember what Nissan's penalty was. But I digress. It is always possible to build a better mouse-trap.
Just an opinion, nothing to do with anything mechanical or performance wise, but I've seen both of these cars together up close, and I think the CGT is a far cooler design. Neither of these cars are SEXY per say, but personally I think the CGT is more bad ass looking than the Enzo. When I say sexy, think Dino or Miura bodies. I think neither of these new cars are sexy, instead they are both wicked cool, monster machines that exemplify modern stylistic aggression.
You probably won't get anything like a definitive answer since neither car is raced in a competitive series. Even if someone came up with a 0-100 time for CGT vs Enzo, someone else would bicker about the lap times on one track versus another. If one car "beat" the other on a track, someone else will point out that the driver wasn't the best driver in the losing car. I think both mfr's have a vested interest in leaving things that way, so you'll never get a real answer.
From what I've read in magazines it would seem the CGT is the more focussed of the two. A lot have said the Enzo is mind-scramblingly fast but the CGT is ultimately more rewarding (manual gearbox, more communicative steering etc). They have also said the CGT is a bit edgier on the limit, but it's hard to find the Enzo's limit as the steering is numb. Then again the traction control system in the Enzo is unrivalled and is much more confidence-inspiring in the wet. All in all they both seem to be great cars and I'm sure you'll get the same thrill from either one.
Well to each his own, but I couldn't disagree more: The CGT to me looks just like a souped up Porsche and as such doesn't do absolutely anything for me. The Enzo OTOH looks like it is from another planet; the ultimate definition of coolness.
Hehe, good point. IMHO the Zonda is further out. The Zonda makes the Enzo look tame, in the same way the Enzo puts the Porsche in its place optically. Not surprisingly I don't even have a pic of the CGT despite the fact, that I have seen it now twice in the metal with camera in hand. PS: Did I mention I'm a product of the eighties who LOVES wings and over the top designs? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow, thanks folks, I think I will fit right in here.. Thank you very much for your warm welcoming When is that Oak street get together? Maybe I would like to participate?? BTW, I have seen the P.Zonda in person before, nice and all, but well... I was not too impressed with it, I should say It wasn't exciting enough. Cool design and all, but I thought the car body line was not clean like CGT or Enzo.. not sure if you guys will agree. Same reason I like 360 Stradale more than my F430 :-( But I still love my car.
FCA's Oak Street event will be on June 11. A fantastic event you should join. I guess it is all about smooth vs edgy. I love edgy designs like the Countach and Zonda. Hence I prefer the lines of a F430 over a CS (although a CS is a darn cool car to begin with).
Hi Sean, Well IMO, the last good looking cars Porsche built were the 928's not that I like 928's, before those the 904/906/910/908 series cars, I do like them. Other than those examples, I don't think they've ever had any attractive designs. Flame suit on! Regards, Bill
I love the 928! I've driven 2 of them, they are tanks, its great! I will call your bluff on one thing..The 993 is the best looking 911 since the 60's! Enzo vs CGT? Im alittle biased from the start... CGT = Manual box, end of story imo
Not a bluff Kipster, IMO anything derived appearance wise from the 356 is absolutely bucking futt ugly. The 993 may be the best looking butt-ugly Porsche, but that isn't saying much, in my book. Compare a 356/912/911,etc. to the 904/906/907/910, I know they were race cars, but they sold some as street cars for homologation and they weren't always as valuable as they are today. Flame suit still on!!! Bill
My uncle is crazy about 928s... he's been using them as daily drivers for over 10 years. He just bought his second one a few months ago, and the first one still runs great with over 200,000 miles on the clock
Booooo! The Ur911 is delicious...Pop in LeMans and watch the first 5mins.. I almost bought an orange 69' T with newer 2.2L about 5 years ago.....Grandmothers and small kids were running from its noise, and gangsters were running from the backfiring! Granted 911s are abit like arseholes(everyone has one), but originals are like clean arseholess(not as many around)
Well Kip, Besides the looks, I have also had a problem with the way that the hung the fron suspension. They may have just as well used Elmer's glue. They used hollow rivets that are threaded inside (NutSerts), anchored into approximately 20 Gauge sheet metal (the front floor pan), to mount the suspension. You wouldn't believe haw many I have seen with the A arms falling off because of metal fatigue or a tiny bit of rust. Now, if you take the motor, if you can get past the air cooled thing, and put it a decent looking well built body/chassis, then you'll have something, 904, 906, 907, Fabcar, etc., but then you might as well get a T70, Mk6BGT, Sbarro T70-365 or??? Flame suit still on. Bill
If anyone thought the Porsche LeMans racer that Steve McQueen drove around was ordinary or something you can catch at a McyD's in Naperville, I think you should stick to collecting Matchbox cars. 550 Spyder? Daytona Rick can mention how the many Becks are a sign of appriciation and flattering. Porsche can make designs that wow the mind and have proven that on the track and in the sales department. Would any of you rather have a 993 Turbo than a 456GT? If you're that brand loyal I give you respect for that but it terms of looks and performance the Porsche is miles ahead... Have never driven either the Enzo or CGT, but from a looks perspective, I play it safe and say get both. One of the nicest people in our local supercar community, Russ, has both and that seems to put a smile on his face. This question now turned argument is seriously if you like apples vs. oranges and to each his own. I think both are wonderful, beautiful cars. The only thing I can offer is from a racer in GT3 who said the CGT was more fun to drive. I'd rather have a Dauer 962LM or CCR over these two and give the Super 911 and Japanesed Ferrari all the head start they wanted. RocketBoy
now how did it go from 911 to T70? I had some 10x15s made up from RA of some of the CanAms....wow! One of them is just the stacks of one of the Mclarens....cool
I didn't go from 911's to the T70's, the 911 was never in contention. I went from the 904, etc. to the T70, etc.
