I am looking at buying a CS or Scud with these. I have been told to check the "wear" readout from the SD3 of "heat cycles" used... Seems its a percentage readout. One of the cars I am looking at has a 61% used readout after less than 10,000 miles...(for perspective the clutch wear is at 19% and the car has been tracked "some"). What am I to make of this? What is "normal" wear for the carbon brakes? How much longer (miles) before I have to replace? What does a replacement cost? Finally, I have also heard that if I intend to track the car, I should put steel rotors on it anyways...thoughts? Cost of this?
Regarding the steel rotors, we can do the brembo steel conversion We have fronts and rears instock: 380x34 front disks with new pads (pagid yellows) $2395. 350x34 rear disks without pads $1895 We have pagid yellow for the rear also or can run stock pads. These are nice for anyone that is tired of the ceramic high cost. When you want to put the ceramics back on they are a direct replacement. If anyone is interested please let me know.
This is a great option if you are planning on some serious track miles. Replacement costs are obviously heavy and lamination issues are common with CC rotors. Slap the CC setup in a box and install when needed for originality would be my choice.
That's what I'm thinking about...I wouldn't re-install the CC until I was ready to sell the car... Anyone know what a full set of steel brakes with pads and installed costs?
I'm no expert but the 61% wear sounds very high, I looked at 12k mile scud and wear % was only 20%, it had been tracked frequently I was told.
Can you please check on the specs for the Brembo steel rotors? they seem to be a replacement for the regular F430 and F430 Spider CCB, but not for the Scuderia/16M CCB system. The Scuderia and 16M use larger rotors: Front: 398mm x 36mm Rear: 350mm x 34mm It seems the rear can be used, but not the front ones. The uprights (wheel carriers) in the Scuderia and 16M have lower pickup points and they are different parts compared to the F430 and Spider, so I don't know if even swapping the calipers to the regular F430 CCB calipers will work with the 380mm Brembo steel rotors.
Definitely, bag the CCB and swap to steel rotors. A set of brake pads for one axle in the Scuderia retails for $4,000 ($8,000 front and rear). My car uses 3 sets of front pads per set of rear pads. Replacement cost for Scuderia CCB rotors and pads exceeds $30k.
Yeah i'm sorry for the scud/16m, they will not work but the F430 they will. I believe the CS still uses the 380mm disk? For the scuderia the only option is converting to the full brembo GT Kit. They do a 6 piston monoblock caliper with 405x34mm rotors front kit $4650 retail The rear is a 6 piston 380mm setup with a new billet ebrake assembly $5395 retail.
I don't get it. The car has top class ceramic brakes and y'all are saying take 'em off and preserve them and put on steel rotors? Maybe we all should limit the revs to 5000 too? Use it I say!
+1000 I changed from steel rotors to Ferrari aftermarket CCB's and wouldn't go back to steel rotors anymore.
Rob- The CS and F430 CCMs are the same size front and rear. I keep trying to get people to ask Mov'It to produce CER rotors and pads for CCM replacements. They already make them for Porsche PCCB applications, and they last way, way longer than PCCB/CCM or steel brake applications, especially the rotors, but also the pads. Taz Terry Phillips
Terry, you're right, Gen 3 of these rotors/pads seems to be an excellent replacement to the stock CCB's if they need to be changed. Furthermore, their rotors can be refurbished! I hope when I'll have to change my CCB's in the future, Mov'It will have their product ready for the F430/Scud. I'll let them know my interest as they aren't far away from us
search some of the threads on this subject.... but i can tell you after tracking my cs for one season, and having to replace the front rotors and pads at 6k per corner, that i will no longer be tracking that car. its just not worth it. you want to track a ferrari, then get a 360 challenge with steel brakes and truck it to the tracks. every other option you are contemplating will cost you more money and aggro.
When we had the 430 challenge cars racing we would have to replace rotors just about every 3-4 races due to the heat cycles. Just did a ppi on a 06 430 with 11,000 miles and it had 28% wear for the rotors. So it all depends on how you actually drive the car.
That's the kind of thing I had heard. Replacing CCM brakes at that cost and that frequency is simply too steep for me (I was quoted $40k for all four corners today)...and have also heard that the rotors on the CS just are not "really" cut out for tracking...they crack, warp, wear too easliy and (at least I've heard) many folks' change to steel for the track... I have no first hand knowledge of this, but wanted to solicit some from members here!
You guys are making me nervous. Just bought a car that is going thru PPI on Monday. Yes, it has CCB and will never be tracked. I was told by a dealer I'd never have to worry about changing brakes if driving normally (no track, no abuse, etc). That's exactly what I'll do (manual tranny, by the way), but my concern is the previous 8,800 miles. By the way, car happened to have CCB; wasn't looking for it. Before this thread, it was supposed to be all positives. Ha ha. My question for the experts here is what % wear would be acceptable for that mileage that will result in not having to change anything on the brakes for 40K miles? And how about the clutch? Guess those % figures will tell me if car was abused or not, which I'd like to know. Also hope to get max revs, to make sure engine was never mechanically overrevved due to an accidental botched shift. Thanks gang.
Odds are you will never have to change anything on your brakes, except possibly front pads, during your ownership if used for strictly street driving. Clutch wear life is very closely related to driving style, but if your car has F1, you can get a measure of clutch wear with an SD3. Front pads are ~$2000 per set on the outside chance they needed replacement. http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=262270 Interesting. Even though the Scud rotors are 398 mm vs the F430's 380 mm, they use the same brake pads. Taz Terry Phillips
only problem is that they are NOT top class ceramics!!! great for street use, but nowhere near living up to the hype and marketing mamba jahamba when really 'pushed' during track use (especially considering the extortionate costs involved). you want top class brakes for street AND track abuse? try Mov it's gen 2 and 3 brakes. those make Brembo and SGL carbo ceramics look and perform like toys.
Dave- I have the Gen 2s on my car, but hate to push them too much. I agree with you, though. Price is not that much different, either. The pads are about 50% larger than CCM pads, too. Taz Terry Phillips Image Unavailable, Please Login
Man, $2K for front pads only? Geez. They better have less than 10% wear then. Hey, are the calipers on the CCB larger than on the regular brakes? They look that way, but maybe I'm wrong. Taz, can the SD3 check the wear of a 6sp manual tranny like mine? Or is there an access hole in the bellhousing th physically measure it? Hope so. If driven sedately it should also have within 10% wear. Crossing fingers everything turns out fine. Thanks for your help buddy.
Standard front brakes are 4 piston, two piece caliper, Brembos. CCM calipers are 6 piston, mono-block Brembos. SD3 can only do a wear check on the F1 clutch. No sensor to give a measurement on three pedal cars. Much easier to feel when a three pedal clutch is going, and one will not normally leave you stranded. F430 clutches are not that expensive, but the labor is. A new clutch and Hill Engineering T/O bearing is ~$2500 from Ricambi. Taz Terry Phillips
Great news; at least we get that distinction. Plus the rotors seem larger as well. And look 'kewl' . Just hope I never have to do anything to them though. Are the rear calipers the same? I imagine the same 4-piston, 2-piece ones, correct? Yeah, FNE said they'd have to estimate clutch wear thru an inspection hole, but they said PPI doesn't include removing the entire rear tray, just the access panels. Can they check it like that??? And thanks for the info on the clutch. My 2 questions on that subject are: What has to come off for the job? Hope not the engine, but since it's a transaxle, wonder what else needs to come off to remove the half-shafts. And if you know how to drive stick (clutch pedal used only to shift gears, and never slip the clutch except minimally for starting), and are always easy on the clutch (no launches or hard starts), what's the life you can expect from a manual tranny clutch? And FNE said F1 and 6MT trannies were the same and had the same clutch. I belive the same clutch part, but can't be the same tranny, as an F1 has to be sequential, vs the H-pattern for a manual. Who's right? Thanks again for sharing your expertise with us. It's a fascinating car mechanically, and few people here seem to be interested in that, as counldn't find anything with my searches. Wish there was an F430 technical section. If you know of any, please let me know. Take care, and have a great weekend.
Transmission is the same (at least it is in the 360) but I cannot say about the clutch because I don't know. I believe the tranny comes out the bottom for clutch job but again I'm not sure. When it was done on my CS, they pulled the whole engine and transmission because other work needed to be done as well.
