Question to Longtime F1 fans about Senna?

I was never a fan of him. He was an arrogant ****. Brilliant. But arrogant.

That said I fully understand people not liking Schumacher in his career either, after the initial seasons he became quite robot like and arrogant outside the car. I think it took until he finally became champion with Ferrari he started to change and became happier and more relaxed, so to say. At Mercedes he was completely different, he was so relaxed it was ridiculous...It seemed like a weekend hobby really, wasn't out there to prove anything anymore just wanted to race around a little.

 

There was absolutely a mystique about Senna in period. His early death sealed his youthful immortality - like Clark, Villeneuve before him - but anyone saying his death, or least of of the Senna film, is the reason his is perceived as a racing 'God' is an absolute revisionist. Conversely, nor would any credible person downplay the speed and achievements of Prost - he was the titan, the benchmark of the early and mid eighties and many (including his 1986 teammate Rosberg) predicted Senna was going to be badly the exposed: "The myth of Senna will vanish alongside Prost" (to paraphrase) Alas, that did not happen.

Fair enough if some people prefer Prost, but anyone rating him "much higher" than Senna - it is simply bias and not credible. The race win tally during their time as teammates is 14/11 in Senna's favor. In my opinion you cannot diminish one with out diminishing the other.

 

He didn't drive for ferrari so I regarded him like I do hamilton

 

I was a kid in America when he died and I even I knew who he was. Games like super monaco gp for sega genesis had him as the man to beat. The documentary was good but also a little one sided.

I still consider him the fastest driver ever.

 

I have followed Formula 1since 1974 and believe that the only other driver that was revered as much when they were alive during the time that I have followed F1was Gilles. Both Senna and Gilles took their cars past what others could do or believe the car was capable of doing in everyone else’s mind. However many also though that because of how far they were willing to push, that there would be a “big one” and sadly that was true for both Gilles and Senna. While their death at the wheel sealed them in racing immortality, they both were able to do things that the competition could not.

There were drivers that were also fast and more consistent, but they did not elicit the same emotionally following. Prost was also very special, he is definitely one of the all time greats. I think the best perspective that I have heard comparing Senna and Prost was from Jo Ramirez who was friends with both of them when all 3 were at McLaren, if the car was perfect and the weather was good, Prost was faster, if the car was not perfect or the weather was not great, Senna was faster. The car was not perfect very often during those time according to Jo, so Senna was typically faster. I think the other knock that followed Prost throughout his career is he never left his team on good terms having been fired by both Renault and Ferrari and being put in a position that both McLaren and Williams knew he would leave rather than be teammates with Senna. Again, I think Prost and Senna are in the top 5 of all time including Fangio, Schumacher and Clark. Having had the opportunity to watch them compete throughout their entire careers makes me feel extremely fortunate.

 

This is my position too. As the years go by, I appreciate his driving skills more and tend to forget or forgive his personality flaws - aided by more background info about his personal life. Prost was an interesting character and approached his racing in a much more methodical, clinical way - though he could be arrogant too. Perhaps its a personality trait of a world champion. Perhaps even more telling, even the British awarded Prost sports personality of the year - in my opinion more indicative of his approach to racing than his personality.

Credit to both of them - they sure knew how to drive a car.

 

I've been watching F1 since the seventies so yes I followed Senna's career. I was lucky enough to be at the Monaco GP where Ickx cut the race short so Prost could win in the mighty McLaren before this kid Senna in the crappy Toleman could get to him (and another kid Bellof in an even crappier Tyrrell could get to Senna but that's another story). It became obvious that this guy was different. It was a key moment. Just as when Vettel won Monza in the Toro Rosso or Schumacher put the Jordan on 7th at the Spa grid. A watershed moment where you know you just witnessed history in the making and the birth of the next superstar. Max' first win was that too btw.

Senna was hugely popular during his career and had a mega following. I didn't like him, I was/am always a Prost fan but you can't hate a guy you don't respect. And tA here was no denying the immense talent and eventually success Senna had. His touch back then was called magic. Watch some qualifying laps of his around Monaco and you'll understand. Prost was just a fast but more calculated, cooler, which was a turn off for some. Senna was all passion.

And yes he was also an arrogant jerk. And he stood up against the FIA boss Balestre for which I applaud him. The two years in a row battle with Prost is stuff of legends.

The year he died he was a shoe-in for the title in the dominating Williams. Yet fate decided otherwise. I watched the race when it happened and it was brutal. When they returned the body to Sao Paulo the Brazilian government sent fighter jets as a guard of honor to the arriving plane. People cried in the streets. It was comparable to the JFK assassination. Many years later I visited Morumbi to see his grave. Even then there were still fans grieving along with me.

He "only" won three titles, but he left his mark on the sport forever. My hero prost won 4 titles but I doubt he electrified the fans the same way Senna did.

RIP Ayrton.

 

I saw Senna personally race 3 Times. Twice at Monaco and once at Phoenix.

My memory was at the time that Senna was considered something special and was popular. Yes he had his deputes with people like Prost but Prost was considered “the ass” at the time.

I was in Phoenix when Alessi made his famous pass on Senna. It happened right in front of me. Of course people wanted Ferrari to win but they also were not anti- Senna.

The feeling was if you bested Senna, you bested the best.

At least that is my memory. Time does change things.

The other driver with universal respect was Nigel Mansell. He also seemed to be well liked by all even if he beat you.

 

Senna was magical. I saw him race about 10 times in person.

Remember, these were the days where there was an actual clutch and shifter in the cars, so there was a lot more for drivers to do. No electronics, and they had ridiculous power in the cars. The way Senna balanced clutchwork, braking, throttle, and steering was unlike anyone else. He was the master.

 

Ayrton was as popular then as he is now. IMO he was the best driver in his day, he was a bit faster than Alain (of course Senna would prepare the car more for the pole, and Alain for the race, that's why you see Senna with many more poles, but Alain with many more fastest laps.) SEnna was naturaly faster but many times, He just seemed to be faster, because Prost was taking care of 5the car and tires, and would come back at him by the end of the race. Ayrton was arrogant, sometimes an idiot, disrespectfull of other drivers but, at the same time, he was alwasy the first to help felow drivers, always very concerned when someone had an accident, trying to help kids, he really had these two sides. He was very, very good, i guess after Gilles, f.1 magic faded away and Ayrton brought it back a bit. I hated the guy, but he really was that good.

 

The Senna movie is not too kind to Prost.

 

Gilles and Senna both died because of their own bad judgment. Both very talent drivers but with personalities that contributed significantly to their shortened careers. I doubt many if any of todays drivers would take the risks that the drivers in Jim Clark's era did. Back then death was common place. In the end you can rate drivers as talented but that is not the same as greatness. Greatness is measured by results...and the only result that matters is the WDC. 7 beats 5, 5 beats 4, 4 beats 3...etc.

 

To add, Prost was the one whom first got me into F1. And then I saw Senna, and it was over - I became a lifelong fan. I still love Prost, he just isn't as colorful as Senna.

 

Senna was no "god" in my book. Talent and ambitious . . . yes. Flawed? Very much so.

 

Disagree.

Gilles' (and later Pironi's) accident were avoidable. Senna's was a freakish thing which I believe is still not fully understood. He was racing Schumacher and had a very good reason to go flat out. Then something happened (steering column broke and/or car bottomed out). He might have survived the impact with the (too close concrete) wall but a suspension part through the helmet did him in. That's about as rare an occurrence as what almost killed Massa.

What Gilles and Pironi did that year was close to reckless racing. IMHO a very different story.

 

I've been following F1 continuously since the early 1950s and attending F1 races in Europe since 1960. And I think tifosi writes it just about right. While respecting his enormous talent I really disliked Ayrton's cut and thrust, burn and destroy personality.

Here's another perspective and another way to pose the question: let me ask you all, if you were a team owner or, in today's F1 world, a team principal, would you rather hire Alain or Ayrton?

 

I agree with this assessment 100%.

 

I remember watching Senna's accident live. They had just come off a safety car that had allowed the tires to cool down, thus lowering the ride height of the cars. The announcers were cautioning that going too fast too soon could cause the cars to bottom out harshly. When the green flag came back out, Senna was obsessed with catching Schumacher and floored it. His car sent up showers of sparks...bottoming out multiple times before it hit the corner and lost it. The bottoming out could have cause a loss in down force or broken a suspension component. Senna didn't wait for his tires to get back up to temp...and it is fair to say he caused his own accident. That a suspension part came loose and caused the fatal injury was his bad luck, but the accident that caused that was his fault.

 

Senna was in the lead when the accident happened.

 

As a brazilian, my opinion must be somwhat biased, but... Senna wasnt clean, wasnt friendly. Brilliant, yes. But I like more to watch Prost driving. Less agressive, respecting the car and the track.

But he was a national idol, and dying just boosted it.

I can say I prefer Piquet Sr (also 3 times world champion)

 

This is the first time I have heard a definitve answer on what exactly cause the accident, except Senna was leading the race. 23 years later and nobody really knows what actually caused the accident, only what made it fatal.

 

SAfety car was a Opel Vectra. Ridiculous. Barely 200PS in the most powerfull version

 

Well said...his "intentional crashing"...and Schumi once tried it too (albeit in Qualifying, Monaco) .....is just not something a "sportsman" or even in my mind, a professional would do. But as noted it's the type of thing a team of competitive drivers might have to deal with!