HI Guys, newby here and just want to say that you guys are the real pro out there with cars. Maybe you can help me with a question. I recently bought a 2002 360 F1 from California with 7k miles on and it is getting a few things upgraded prior to delivery here to New York City. ( Stradale bumper, rockers and the MS Racing exhaust) I am shame to say that I have never driven a F car before but was always a dream and last month I decided to just sell my Porsche and jump in. The guy at my local dealer (miller motors) would not let me drive one and said that people who shops one usually have a friend who owns one. Oh well. In my collection, I have a 2002 BMW M3 SMG with many upgrades like CAI, full head to tail Eisenmann exhaust, chip upgrade, the car Dyno at 300RWH. Question: 1, which car's tranny shifts faster? from what I experienced from the M3, it's fast.....especially on sports mode. 2, I understand the 360 stock is 400 hp at the crank, what is that at the wheel? dyno? by adding CF air box or Group M intake, my MS racing exhaust do I really need to change the headers to get extra HP? what is the most gain at the wheels without going to sofware upgrades? I can't wait for the car to get here in a month or so, my wife and I will have fun racing each other on both cars. Here is a pic of my car next to my neigbors 430. The guy is the owner of that clothing company Rockware or something that JZ guy's partner. He got this Back in July of 05. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Love the interior color of your M3, it's by far my favorite! I hope you enjoy your Ferrari upon delivery.
Hot, The M3 or M5 is nothing like the 360! Having owned both the E39 and E60 and driven on the track and road the M3 w/competion package, there is no comparison. The E60smg is as good as the 360, but handeling is a different ball game. Have you ever been karting?? Driving a 360 is like a dat at the karts, point and shoot! The steering, the sound, the shifts, all are spot on better! Shifts in sport mode in the 360 are just as fast as the shifts in the E60 smg. However, the E60 was a faster car than the 360, but will never handle like the 360. Congrats on the new car!!!!! Robert
Thanks Robert, I am looking much forward to it's arrival. I have to start planning roads here in New York area to drive on. Here in Manhattan there are endless amount of potholes. Ken
The M3's SMG in S6 shifts faster than the 360's F1 according to the manufacturer's published figures. Greg A
With a 2002 M3 if I'm not mistaken you have SMG 1 correct? If so you are probably going to get faster shifts with the F1 gearbox, but they will feel like shifts in s4 or s5, as the 360 F1 box is (from what I've read and heard) fairly rough in auto mode. Now when you put it into manual mode you it will be as smooth as you make it, but still not as smooth as a true 6 speed. Moving from an M3 to a 360, I wouldn't be worrying about any power upgrades lol. But just for reference, GruppeM (not group M) airbox is always a good choice on ANY car.
FWIW, different manu's measure the 'shift' differently...some only quote the time it takes to swap cogs, others the entire shift..ie, clutch in, swap gears, clutch out= 'shift'... and all under 'optimal conditions'...
SMGIII is horrible. I eventually lemon lawed my E60 M5 (can't get into reverse when cold and sudden clutch engagement on standstill). Internal BMW bulletins show that they know about the issues.
All US E46 M3s had SMGII. The older M3s in Europe had SMGI which was pretty bad, and way different (still had a clutch pedal I think?). SMGII is comparable to 360 F1. I would say SMGIII is better than 360 F1. SANguru - sorry to hear ofyour problems with it and it wasnt functioning right, which is unfortunate. Doesnt mean it wouldnt be great had it been working. Sorry to hear. My M6 continues to amaze me and my friends with shifting speeds. Its actually very smooth 98% of the time, if you know how to drive it. You still have to treat it as a manual, and let it get into gear before nailing the gas, etc. SMGIII tranny was a complete redesign, specifically for F1. SMGII was a regular M3 6sp Getrag tranny with electro-hydraulics bolted to it. SMGIII with the latest software is pretty great once you get to understand it. SMGII requires more finess and throttle modulation to be smooth. Personally, I would get a 6sp 360 and a F1 430.
I have both a 2003 M3 with SMG and a 2000 360 with F1. In short, the SMG tranny is 4 years newer than the system Ferrari put into the Modena and it does show. As far as shift speed, BMW's figures would indicate it's faster, but in the real world, full throttle, redline shifts are both very fast and I can't tell any real difference. The main difference I find between them is the smoothness of shifts in normal driving. The M3 shifts are noticeably smoother to me in daily driving. With SMG the smoothness of a shift is determined mainly by how you ease on and off the throttle between shifts, with that in mind you have a decent degree of control over that. With the system in the 360 you have less control over how it's going to shift. And at least with my 360, starting off from a dead stop in first gear is rarely smooth. It takes a lot of finesse to get the clutch to play nice with first gear. Though I've read this can be mitigated to some degree by having the dealer adjust the clutch's PIS (Point of Initial Slip). And since you're also used to an M3, you may miss the shifter knob in the center console a little, all shifting on the 360 must be done with the steering wheel paddles. I thought it was more convenient to have 2 shifting options on the M3, but it's rather inconsequential in the end. Why? Because the 360 is such a joy to drive, you really have to try hard to nitpick any flaws in it. Sure the shifting is not as smooth, and there's less convenience, but you forget all that once you're driving. Compared to the M3, there is so much more tactile feeback coming through to you on the 360. The steering feels much more direct, you think, it turns. The feedback makes you feel more in tune with what the tires are doing and how much load is on them. The chassis is the same, stiff and responsive, but not punishingly so. The throttle response of the M3 in "sport" mode is quicker than that of the 360, but I know a lot of people feel it's too sensitive. So even though initial throttle response of the M3 may feel quicker, there's no question on which car pulls harder. I don't think I've ever hit the rev limiter in the M3, but I've hit it multiple times in the 360, it just goes up the rev range so fast and so freely it catches you out. And the exhaust sound you get in the 360 should be reason enough on its own to convince anyone with the means, to buy one.
Thanks so much for the detail description. Yes, I do like that dual shifting option in the M3, I kept on wondering if you needed to make a sharp turn, it would be hard to shift up or down on the 360 getting all confused on which one to pull. I don't know if you notice but in Sport mode on the M3 if you turn off the traction control there is an extra bar for the speed of shift on the display. The car shifts like a pistol at that point. I am looking to race both of these cars.
One very important difference regarding the confusion on which paddle to pull: the 360 paddles are mounted on the steering column, whereas I assume the M3 paddles (like my M5 paddles) are mounted on the steering wheel, so when you turn the wheel, they move. On the 360, you always know where up is and where down is, which I feel is a slightly more sensible design.
