Questions for Ferrari Racers

Hello Ferrari chat board members,

I'm currently an MBA student at the University of California, Irvine. I'm working on a research project regarding the development of an automotive track and club facility for Southern California. My team and I are conducting research on the priorities of luxury car owners, especially those who race their cars, and would greatly appreciate your input regarding the promotion of such a facility. The survey will take approximately 5 minutes or less and all analysis will be performed in aggregate and in full confidentiality. Please note that I am a student and not affiliated with any commercial entity; this is for academic research.

Link to survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=NTtyWs0pIIQ_2fbBINlITdZw_3d_3d

I appreciate your feedback. Happy racing!

Regards,

Suzanne Marta
MBA 2009
Paul Merage School of Business
University of California, Irvine

 

Interesting - As of this post, 30 views and zero comments.

Do you mind me asking how many completed the survey?

BTW, I did, way less than 5 minutes, and only one bug - You can't enter your car type unless you've got 5+ of 'em.....

Seriously though, I really hope the OP reports back.

cheers,
Ian

 

Hi Ian, thank you for taking the survey. As you saw it was fast and very quick. Thank you for your feedback about the bug as well; I will see if there is a way to fix that!

I am going to keep the survey open until next Monday; hopefully by then I will have enough input to make statistically significant conclusions.

Regards,

Suzanne

 

Probably a bit pedantic, and you likely already know this, but - very few here actually "race," and a street exotic generally can't be competitively raced without substantial modification and, even then, would make a lousy race car. The terminology is significant, IMO, because the decision to host racing and racers at your hypothetical facility has (or IMO should have) significance in many aspects of planning including track layout, spectator facilities, insurance, sound levels, and so on. I think you contemplate an automotive country club for what I'd call the track day crowd.

The country club concept has little appeal for me because I like to race at a variety of tracks; track days, as opposed to competitive races, don't have all that much appeal for me; and, as a vacation destination, no amount of realistic infrastructure will make my wife want to visit. Better to put the thing close to an interesting vacation spot (Laguna Seca/Carmel; Moroso/Palm Beach; Sears Point/Sonoma, etc.) than to try to turn a race track into a resort. In other words, I'd spend the $$ on well located real estate as opposed to a spa. Running a first class resort is really hard, and IMO track owners are at best ambitious to think they can do it.

Good luck!

 

After working with several projects (both realized and a substantial number unrealized), that is the TRUTH!

 

I think you might get more responses if you were to post a photo of yourself...scantily clad, preferably...












(I am amazed that with this crowd of lowlifes, nobody posted this before me )

 

You should charge for that advice!

 

I was working to put one of these clubs together, and suprisingly it was easy to find people who would give you a cash deposit. The difficult part is guaranteeing a finished project. If you build from scratch, you face huge enviromental laws and local legal issues, unless you build out in the dessert or totally secluded land, which makes it difficult to attract people to join up.

I took the route to buy an existing track and convert the facility with Condo's and garages etc... however the current track owners want top dollar for developed facilites... its a catch 22, un less you have the personal capital to do the whole thing and want to make it pay for its self over time.

So if you have the personal capital in excess of $40 Million and are interested in doing a deal ... PM me I have a great deal with a world famous track close to a major city... for real no B.S.

 

I completed your survey.

I have a membership here.

http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/

But it is about 300 miles from my house.

If someone builds a track in Socal I would consider joining it.

 

Welcome to the website and good luck.

See the Motorsports Ranch projects here in Texas, for a nice model.

No idea on long term financial viability.......

 

From what I have been told (this is not based on personal experience), there are three business models for building a new track today: (1) a membership based "country-club" track, e.g., MSR-Houston or Monticello, (2) a "for-hire" track, and (3) a combination of the two.

In the membership based model, you raise the seed money from potential members and borrow the remaining funds to buy and build the track. The advantage here is initial positive cash flow (for the developers), but down-stream revenue is limited because the majority of the eventual track time will be used by members and will not be available for hire.

In the for-hire model, you raise the start-up funds from investors and borrow as necessary to, again, buy and build the track. The downside is negative cash flow (for maybe 2-3 years) while you build the track. However, the upside is significantly more revenue in the long run due to track rentals. Racing, particularly NASCAR, is a big business, and all the major teams rent tracks for test and tune, sometimes for a month. Because these rentals do not require any services, they are very profitable. The next target market is for club racing and so on.

All tracks actually shoot for #3, i.e., a for-hire track with a membership base. Again, the financial issue being that membership financing limits future for-hire dates. Investor financing allows the owner to seek an optimum mix.

Frankly, the membership model is relatively new and there are few success stories. Even MSR in Dallas was originally built by the owner without membership dollars.

Moreover, the membership model can also suffer from significant legal issues involving securities and consumer protection laws.

Good luck and let us know how the study turns out.

Dale

 

Hi everyone,

Wow, I did not expect such feedback so fast. I appreciate it!

As for your ideas, they're all very good, but unfortunately I'm not actually designing or opening a track Maybe in a few years after I actually get my MBA, ha. What I'm trying to find out are more marketing-focused pieces of information - what's important, what's not. And your feedback has absolutely been wonderful, both in the survey and in this thread.

Please, keep it coming!!

Kind regards,

Suzanne M.

 

I for one think its a great idea. I heard someone was working on something similar, but they are taking it a step further by making a racing community. Kind like how they have flying communities where you own a home with a hangar and share the runway and facilities with other plane owners.

 

In that regard, in my experience, the marketing for membership funded tracks has been one-on-one. The high dollar sports car crowd is a relatively small group of nutcases. So when someone starts the idea of building a track locally, word gets around pretty fast. Just like in a private investment, interest or lack thereof depends on the credibility of who is behind the deal. Most of us have been around for a while and take of dim view of dreamers who have nothing to lose.

Dale

 

+1

However, she did say, right up front, it was a research project for her MBA. IMHO, an interesting one as well. I'm certainly hoping she gets her "statistically significant" sample and takes the time to post the "results" back here.

Given the current feedback, a few things jump out:

1. With hindsight, "track day users" would probably be a better term than "racers". [Although, everyone in Virginia City refers to the hillclimb as "the Ferrari races"......]

2. I'm not sure she'll use her real name next time - Even with the "smiley" I thought Senna3xwc's comment was a little out of line.....[Yeah, we know it was a joke, but it didn't add anything IMHO]

3. The "signal to noise" ratio has, nevertheless, remained pretty good - Most everyone's on their best behavior, and freely offering some great comments.

As always, my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

 

Here's one to look at: Victory Lane

http://www.unlimitedspeed.net/site02.html

Homes with race car garages...hangers....airfield/racetrack.... drive your racecar around the neighborhood....land your plane... nice.

Christopher

 

I have been thinking this over and have decided that membership-based "country-club" tracks are a fad that will not last. In fact, I remember when membership based racket ball clubs were going to replace tennis about twenty-five years ago. I haven't see one of these clubs still open in a long time.

Why do I think that country-club tracks will not work? First, going fast on the track tears the hell out of your car. Plus, if your track toy is a Ferrari or Porsche, this can get expensive in a hurry. Like $20k for one get off. I have seen many guys suddenly loose their enthusiasm after that first hard spin where they miss a wall by just "this much."

Second, not only is racing is dangerous, it is hard work. Yeah, I know. You start out saying that you're gonna be mature and not get sucked into being a Ricky Racer. The problem is that it is relatively easy to get up 8/10s. (See Lolaman's web site for a great definition of x/10s.) But, boy oh boy, those last 2/10s are where the rubber no longer hits the road. This stuff is like crack. Once you turn on the timer, you can't run. You can't hid. You can only look within yourself to go quicker and quicker. (Fast doesn't necessary equal quick.)

In other words, the lower the lap times, the most mental the game becomes. You may have heard of racers talking about concentration, but it is more than that. Being the fastest on the track, requires a laser beam like focus. Plus, racing is a loner game. You're not going to get a chance to pitch very many deals while you're on the race track.


Finally, there are not enough wealthy AND talented racers to support the concept. The are a lot of broke and talented racers, but it is all they can do to scrape up enough money for their next fix. Why is wealth and talent required? Simple, guys who are not good at racing, will eventually find something else to do.

So while hitting the track sounds like fun, it is about as far from golf as it is possible to be. The idea that there are enough sports car owners who will go run hot laps instead of playing golf is not realistic. Sooner or later, lack of money or talent hits most racers. As the Skippy people say about many students, OSB (Other sports beckon.)

Dale