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Questions re: 328 purchase and values

Discussion in '308/328' started by JayO, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. JayO

    JayO Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2003
    872
    Boston, MA
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    Jay
    I have been reading this site for a couple months, but this is my first post. Be gentle.

    I am considering buying a 328 and I have a couple questions regarding values of two specific cars. Please let me know your opinions.

    The first car is a 1986 gts, silver/black, 29k miles. The car seems to be in very good condition. (although I haven't seen any of the cars in person yet) The only non-stock item on the car is a set of Speedline wheels. Also, the owner said the full 30k service will be completed before it is sold and the prospective buyer will be able to call the dealership, while they have the car, to ask any questions. the price for this car is $39,995 (firm - including the 30k service)
    The cars looks great, but someone I know said to stay away because of the color and potential resale troubles. I understand red and black cars are more desireable, but would this car take a big hit if I put 15k miles on it in two years and needed to sell it?

    The second car I was looking at is a 1987 gts, black/black, 35k miles. This car also looks very clean. (from the pics I have seen) The 30k service was done in 2000 - I'm assuming with around 30k on it. Would this car be needing another major service soon? Also, the asking price for this is $48,000. That seems a little high, but then again it is only the asking price. What do you think would be a fair price for this car, taking into account any service it may need? Also, how much would 15k miles in a couple years effect the value?

    I saw a post in the last couple weeks that discussed 328 price ranges. Going by that, I would think both these cars are worth about the same - (low $40's) . But, one of my main concerns is resale vaule. Only because I am not sure how long I will keep the car. Does the color really affect resale enough where I wouldn't want to buy a "less desireable" color knowing I may only have the car a year or two?

    Thanks for any comments.

    Jay
     
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  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    I would put the value of these at upper $30's.

    30k service is worth about $3k if done right, but the 86 is only about a $35-36k car without the service.

    The 87 will need a 30k shortly too. The asking price on that is way too high.
     
  4. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
    360
    Los Angeles California
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    Rudy Hassen
    See if you can go to ferrarimarketletter.com and see if they let you look at recent issues for free. While the prices shown in this guide anger a lot of people (sellers), I think they are reasonably correct.
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,196
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    The right color is the one YOU want! Who cares about it at resale, tell the "future" buyer to get a painter and make it HIS favorite color! FWIW

    Speedline is a good wheel, but stock is always better, IMO

    Signed,

    Speedy "I'm keeping my car 'till I croak" 308
     
  6. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    The prices are asking prices and usually from individual owners, so usually there is some inexperience and emotion built into the price. Even Gearld will admit the prices aren't correct from a sales price perspective.
     
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  8. REM9

    REM9 Karting

    Jun 17, 2001
    175
    Finger Lakes NY, USA
    Full Name:
    Russ Moore
    Jay,
    The 328 is an excellent car and one that will provide lots of enjoyment. I have an 87 GTS in Red with Tan interior. As far as buying one that others say "is the right color" that's something you need to determine yourself. Certainly red is a very desirable color, yet I bought mine because it looks fantastic. I assume many others think so also which makes it a color in demand. Buy the car for yourself though. Being worried about the resale value before you even own it might mean you're buying it for the wrong reason.
    You need to investigate more than just 2 cars before buying. Check out the Ferrari Market Letter and also Sports Car Market Magazine. These will both give you a very accurate idea of what actual selling prices are these days. Avoid those sellers with average cars at high prices. Check to see what service records are available and whether the tool kit is complete and intact. On occassion, you may run onto a car being sold by the original owner. This is very desirable and can be better than some "dealers" that are out to move units.
    I might also suggets there are a few folks on this site that deal in Ferraris and may also be a resource in your search. Better to take your time and buy the right car than move in a hurry and regret it for years to come.
    I also suggest you buy the best example you can afford. It's the clean well maintained car that will resell down the road better than the car that's long in the tooth and wanting of some preventive maintenance. If there are no records of service work being done, assume it wasn't done!
    I agree with an earlier statement that the prices you defined on the two cars were too high. Again, use this site and the other resources to guide your search and don't be afraid to ask questions. I too have run across some owners that seem to believe their cars are still worth what they paid 10 years ago for them. Asking prices in many cases, have little basis in the reality of the current market. Judge each car individually but keep in mind what the range of values should be for similar vehicles.

    Best of luck. This is time well spent.

    Russ Moore
    87 328GTS
    86 TR
     
  9. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
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    Jack
    Jay, like you already heard, the 328 is a great car. I've had mine for 2 years and still love it as much as the day I got it. I think the approach you need to adopt is this: What color do YOU want, and how much are you willing to spend. Don't think about resale value as a motivator. It's merely a bonus that Ferraris depreciate, if at all, less than any other car. What's most important is finding a car that you love, at a price you're comfortable paying. Those two cars aren't the only ones out there, so don't make any rash decisions just because they're available. Definitely take your time and you'll find the perfect car.
     
  10. JayO

    JayO Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    Jay
    Thanks for all the responses already. I am definitely not going to jump at the first car that looks shiny. I just picked these two examples to get an idea of what I should be looking to spend on something similar.

    As far as color goes, I really don't have a favorite one. I guess if I had to list my favorites in order they would be red, grigio, black and silver. I understand about getting the best car for my money. I would rather have a great 328 in black than a red one that has some questions with it.

    Russ, I am only thinking about resale prices now becasue I know in a year or two I will have a child (I just got married a couple months ago) and I know I may need to sell the car at that point. Hopefully not, but it could happen. So, I just don't want to buy something that could be worth a lot less than another car I would have been just as happy with. does that make any sense?

    What I am looking for would be something up to $44k (including any service I would need to do once I buy it, black interior, 20k - 30k miles. I want something well taken care of since I want to drive it as often as possible. I'm definitely not looking for a car to only put 2k miles a year on.

    thanks again
    Jay
     
  11. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
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    Jim
    Yes, that is why red cars are more expensive. You put a red 328 next to a silver 328 and watch the morons. They know the red car is a
    Ferrari, but they think the silver car is a Supra or something. Its amazing to watch. I would say resale is better on a red, but you can get into a different color cheaper.

    Make sure the condition matches the odometer. ie worn seats, carpet, repaint, these cars are getting over 16 years old. Real 30k cars are getting scarce.

    Life is full of choices.
     
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  13. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
    8,026
    western hemisphere
    If the 87 had a 30K service in '00, it won't "need" a service anytime soon from a practical standpoint unless it has been abused. It is very likely that the 30K service in '00 was the FIRST for this car. That's 14 years. That said, I wouldn't recommend 14 years on the same cam belt, but I would think you would be OK for AT LEAST another 4 or 5 years (up to 30K or so miles) without any problem whatsoever.

    Ferrari owners get fanatical about these cam belt changes. Cam belt failures are a rarity with these cars, even if the car is abused. A friend of mine bought a 1981 308 with 38K miles on it last year and the cam belt had NEVER been changed. Obviously he changed it, but the darn belt held for 23 years. Ridiculous I know, but don't be overly concerned about that - the whole subject is way overkill in my opinion.
     
  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I agree, but fact is the car should be discounted because the real market perceives it's going to need a 30k soon. Use it to your advantage, get the price chopped down, but then wait 3-4 years.
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    The beauty of the 328 is they are already pretty much fully depreciated. Say you bought that first one mentioned for $40k, and drove it for two years and put another 15k miles on it. Assuming you had the "minor" service performed (fluids, valve adjust, cam seals, etc, $2k max.), you could probably flip the car for around $34 to $35k. So you lose the $5 or 6k and the ownership costs, insurance, gas, maintanence, and had one hell of a time. Do that with a 355 and "who boy", you'll pay dearly putting 15k miles on that. MORE fun, no doubt, but expensive too. Especially with these recommended 3 year belt changes. Even if you don't buy into the 3 year interval, try telling that to a prospective BUYER....
     
  16. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    Mint 328s can sell for the 50s and excellent ones for the high 40s, a 328 in the high 30s is going to have some issues,dings, paint, interior,bent hood, missing service records so you can't verify the miles etc,.things add up real fast with these cars it's amazing to me how Ferraris magically always have around 30k on them when for sale-
     
  17. pig4bill

    pig4bill Karting

    Dec 24, 2003
    59
    Jay, you are correct to be concerned about the color. A non-red should be priced lower than a red because the guy you sell it to will want to pay less too. So don't pay "red money" for a silver car. On the second car, even though it's been only 5k miles since the belt change, it's been 3 years. When you go to sell it 2 years from now, you can bet most buyers are going to figure in a service on a 5 year old belt regardless of miles, and want to reduce the price accordingly.
     
  18. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    Without a doubt, the most popular Ferrari color is red. Now, the questions is are you more concerned with resale value, or buying what you want? If you only plan on keeping it a few years, red may be your safest bet, with black#2. However, the flip side is that red being so popular, there is never a shortage of red cars for sale. As far as silver, personally I'm not a fan of silver cars, they look great when new or freshly painted, but many get that dull look to them with age, no matter how particular the owner. Also, in the event of a minor mishap, silver is one of the toughest colors to match. But, if silver is your favorite combination, buy it. Don't settle for something you really don't want, unless you are getting a spectacular buy. Get what you want, and simply buy the most car for your money. Take your time, and enjoy the hunt.
     
  19. F328 BobD

    F328 BobD Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2001
    2,327
    Southlake, TX
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    BobD
    Personally, I wanted red from the get-go and only looked at red cars. And I asked a lot of people a lot of questions during my 6 month search. What I was told was that not only will red cars bring more money, but they sell much faster. We have several different colors in the Dallas group. The white, yellow, black and grigio all look great.

    I looked at a lot of cars that had very rough lives... I expected most F-cars would be in great shape (well cared for) but what I found was much different. So take your time, do your research and be selective. Investing a few extra dollars (and some extra time) for the "right" car will absolutely save you a lot of money in the long run.
     
  20. yasir

    yasir Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    339
    Verf,
    How could you confuse a 328 with any other car let alone a Supra.
    Later.
     
  21. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,238
    Colorado
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    Dave
    JayO
    I've had a couple of 328's. Currently own an 89 GTB. Here's some thoughts.

    If the silver one is the car in Vermont, it's been for sale for years. I would want to know why. I have seen a number of silver cars offered that sold pretty fast, so that's not the problem. 328's look good in silver. I almost bought a silver GTB myself some years ago but it had red interior that I hated. The speedlines are not a big issue. Used stock wheels can be bought for about 1500-2000. a set and you might get 1K for the speedlines if they are 17 inch. As far as major service being included, you would want to know exactly what that includes. Selling dealers often change belts, but not seals or tensioners and a host of other items. If the job is not thorough, you may have to do it again before long to fix leaks, replace tensioners or other items.

    I have seen black/black cars languish for a while. The one you mention is overpriced by quite a bit.

    As far as resale, if you keep it 2 years and put 5K miles on it, it won't be worth a whole lot less, maybe 2-3K (major service deprciates as well as the car). If you buy non red, just be sure to pay a non red price. Unless they are green, prugna, brown or some other really off color, they sell fine if priced appropriately.

    There are many fine 328's out there. Be patient.

    Dave
     

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