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R-134a retrofit for OEM stock Dino A/C system: Any Interest ?

Discussion in '206/246' started by synchro, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #1 synchro, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    Would anyone be interested in a full R-134a retrofit kit for their already existing OEM A/C system if it was priced, say under $2500.00 ?

    The goal would be to maintain OEM appearance yet take advantage of modern refrigerants, hoses and seals where:
    - All old style flared seals would be removed from the system and only R-134a HNBR O-ring seals used at each juncture
    - Total number of seals in system reduced to increase reliability
    - Recalibrate sensors for R-134a
    - increase system efficiency (compressor yields 40%, Condensor 20%)

    What would be included:
    - New Condensor (uses HNBR O-Ring Seals)
    - New Evaporator (uses HNBR O-ring Seals)
    - New R-134a compatible compressor
    - New Rotolock compressor fittings with access ports
    - New compressor clutch
    - New TX valve (uses HNBR O-ring Seals)
    - New Receiver/Drier (uses HNBR O-ring seals)
    - New pressure switches for both High (over pressure) and Low Refrigerant levels, recalibrated for R-134a
    - New Goodyear Galaxy 4826 complete hose set with OEM style Beadlock fittings (uses HNBR O-Ring seals)

    A few things I don't have extras of but I used them on my system for originality:
    - Aspira Friga metal ID compressor plate (but I can remove your old one and install on your new compressor)
    - Bonaldi Clutch front ID plate (but I can remove your old one and install on a new 12v/55w clutch coil )

    Again, simply scoping out extra parts I have that I'll probably not use and I could possibly make up a few kits but wanted to see if there is any demand or simply shelve these.

    Scott

    PS - cabin airflow can be improved by adding duct routing to side kick panel vents. I have the correct 100mm duct hose from blower out


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  2. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    I am interested.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  3. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    10 out of 10 for the engineering challenge but alas our summer's only last about 2 days were AC is required.
    Best
    Tony
     
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  4. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #4 synchro, Aug 20, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
    Hold on to your hats, several shipments inbound of AC tools and parts

    Last year I installed a MiniSplit AC/Heat Pump in my garage which was a great excuse to buy digital AC diagnostic tools, manifold and micron gauge so I'm already primed
     

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  5. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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  6. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #6 synchro, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
    The Bantam II above is a complete evaporator and SPAL fan unit that will fit inside the Dino footbox (aka smuggler's box)

    Remove the old OEM AC fan and that hole now allows access for the five outputs vents to be routed to all 3 dash vents and both kick panels. It also increases the plenum space and air is pushed directly up to the vents (OEM has a 90 degree bend at evaporator).
    Every OEM vent in the Dino could be blowing AC cooled air

    I'm waiting on specs for this unit but this is the most promising option so far. There is also a bluetooth model



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  7. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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  8. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    First trial arrivals
     

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  9. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

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    This is very COOL! Pun intended.
     
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  10. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    Well, here we have 2 months when it is not needed , only when I am traveling :)

    Regards, Alberto
     
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  11. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #11 synchro, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
    Trial fit of 891mm compressor V belts in an attempt to gain headroom for rotolock fittings. Close inspection shows OEM hammer marks on underside of unseen shelf above compressor head to gain said room for the original backseat valves. (I'm not kidding - these are serious dents, not made during fabrication)

    Trial belt results not that great, original 900mm length still gave slightly more clearance to compressor fittings


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  12. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #12 synchro, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
    Trial fit for Operational valves - hoses not connected at this point as it is only a trial fit

    The color coded operational valves are only attached and used with Test equipment for filling, testing, recovery and diagnosis - but I still need to be able to connect them periodically and the quick disconnect has a high ridge edge making this is a potentially very tight place.

    They successfully attach, seal, operate, and release without issue. There is no contact with bodywork and a bit more space than imagined - a big hurdle is passed and my Aspera Frigo "moderna" is moving closer to success.

    .


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  13. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    Bad news.
    I called Restomod and got a few answers:
    - They don't rate their units in BTU, no way to compare cooling capability because it isn't stated
    - The combo of evaporator/heater core is only a 4 pass copper tube unit
    - The Heater core is part of the unit, Dinos only need the AC evaporator
    - You must use their ecu / controllers, Dino knobs may not fit
    - the Five (5) output doors are NEVER open all at the same time. As a maximum, only 3 ports will be open. Another indication the unit may not be scaled large enough for our needs

    for $900 I love the ABS case and efficient SPAL fan flow route but that is about where the love story ends....it seems underpowered for cooling for all 5 outputs (I want A/C coming from all 3 dash vents and the kick panels vents)


     
  14. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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  15. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    I seem to remember a sticker with that name on my condenser. Dennis McCann was going to reproduce it but his guy lost it.
     
  16. racerboy9

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  17. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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  18. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    If there is something odd I'm not seeing it. I have my original in my hands and it looks the same to me. What am I missing?
     
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  19. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #20 synchro, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    Those do not look like R-12 flare fittings to me.



    Update: OEM evaporator change out of the fittings from R-12 to R-134a
    side by side comparison.


    This project has been a huge effort and has required breaking into sealed systems to install components;
    both the cooling system and fuel system need hoses removed to install parts
     

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  20. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    They went to O-ring fittings on the later cars.
     
  21. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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  22. DrDweeb

    DrDweeb Rookie

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    Well, my car doesn't have A/C, but it would be nice if there was a complete kit. :)
     
  23. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    The kit would not be enough as you need a new pulley, five radiator bracket tabs mounted, evap and a fuel tank space cutout. If you decide to retrofit an electric compressor then that reduces effort but not space. You are operating based on changing gas to liquid and back again so need a minimum hose length to allow the fluid to settle and stabilize.
     
  24. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    I'm having new evaporators made out of copper
     

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