Searched, still haven't seen anyone with details on a racing harness in USA for the 458. Anyone have ideas for track days? Thank you.
My mechanic installed me those into my Speciale. They're the belts from the 458 Challenge. I can hook them in for trackdays and take them off for street-use, as they're not street-legal.
Did you install a harness bar or was your car setup for the (non-US spec) factory harness mounts? There are quite a few threads here on the installation of harnesses in US-spec cars; the verdict is you need to install a harness bar.
I learned there are two setups. If you order the with the 4-point-harnesses there is a harness-bar in the firewall, in all other cars not.. I wonder why they produce two different versions. The mechanic drilled two holes in the firewall, installed a threaded reinforcement-plate on the engine-side (the same way it is done in the Challenge - he knows because he takes care of a Challenge from a Customer) to bolt-in the eye for the hooks. The lap-belts can easily be mounted at the seat. Took him 2 days for driver and passenger seat - and me 2 grand
Just my opinion, but I find any 4 point harness setup borderline dangerous, street or track. Surely I wouldn't like to be involved in an crash with that. What are the last belts anchored too ? The seat rails ? In the even of a crash, your body would slide down, the lap belts who no longer sit on your hard pelvis bone, but rather your soft internal organs above the pelvis... To prevent that, you need to use a 5-6 pt harness. The 5th and 6th point's job is to keep thos lap belts on the pelvis. And that should always be used with a HANS device. Safety is no joke, and unless you go full harness, helmet and HANS, I truly beleive you are way safer using a standard 3 point seat belt. Schroth came up with an anti-submarining system for a 4pt harness. It's an interesting idea. Some extra fold of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that elongates at a different rate than the outboard belt, giving the same motion of a 3pt during a crash.
Ah that's interesting! I didn't know such an option was do-able on the street car. What would be the 5-6th pt mounting point ? Drilling thru the chassis using reinforcement-plate like your shoulder belts or a more simple bar running between the seat rails ?
I think when you look into this you will find one thing leads to another and in the end you find out you are either best off with the 3 point belt or going with at least a roll bar, 5/6 point harness and HANS.
Modifying the bulkhead, if done appropriately (i.e. similar to the street cars 4-pt option or the Challenge car's) can certainly work, so good for Mr. BigBlock on modifying his car to what he likes. OTOH, I am in agreement that this is a slippery slope of sorts - I think a 4pt is inadequate, it needs to be 6 point. I also believe that if you're in a harness, you need a HANS (watch the HANS video). We've had the racing seats in every one of our cars other than the FF; while I love them, I am dubious of their strength in a big shunt. To compare, a "race" car has an FIA one-piece seat, the correct HARNESS (not 3-pt belt) anchors to the tub, and the driver should be wearing a HANS. Also highly impractical for the street. However, I think this is individual choice and applaud people who want to modify their cars and track them. Within that choice I have been around enough DE and racing to know when (not if) a car goes go off at mega-speed, I'd like every chance to walk (or crawl) out of what's left of the car. (cage, seat, harness, HANS).
Not to mention fire suppression too.... Thats kind of what I'm getting at- once you start down this road you will end up with a challenge car so you might as well get the challenge car to begin with.
So, I have a Speciale on order to replace a CS that I owned with the 4 pt harnesses. I think the harnesses look fantastic and although not really a full track setup, neither is the Speciale a full track car - more a kind of trackable streetcar. This thread caught my interest for a few reasons. One of them being that I have a condition that has affected my spine (thankfully now halted due to medication). Anyhow, I still have some vertebrae fused together in my neck (which will not reverse) and so I pay attention to these kind of risks. Still need to live life though, but just want to be appraised of the risks. Anyhow, I have found a couple of YouTube clips (below). The first compares the submarining effect of a 4 pt harness against a 3 pt seatbelt. While the 4 pt looks better, there are many factors that can influence proceedings and what I am looking for is that a 4 pt is no worse than the 3 pt in a head-on crash (by far the most likely on road, compared with a rollover). My conclusion is that the clip demonstrates that a 4 pt is fine in this case. What I did notice in both tests, and probably worse in the 4 pt, is the neck extension with the absence of airbags. The Schroth clip (2nd one) shows a 4 pt harness with the use of an airbag. This seems to be critical in preventing a catastrophic extension of the neck causing significant damage. Overall, my conclusion is two things. For the road the 4 pt seems a reasonable solution when used in conjunction with an airbag - less submarining and good control of body motion. Secondly, we live in a much better vehicle safety era than just 10 years ago and I'm very thankful for that! All that said, I am enquiring as to the possibility of 3 pt being fitted in addition to 4 pt, though this mainly because my wife hates using the 4 pt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dv_zeveYR4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHbwvYqq22s
Appreciate all the feedback. I am simply looking for more body stability for potential track day vs the stock setup. Nothing extreme needed. I had assumed a ferrari would be simple to install this type of setup.
I was in the same boat. But there is no easy way around it if you want safety and stability at the same time. Read this thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia/463565-hans-device-4pt-belts.html This is the way how I did it (read post# 24) http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia/463255-track-day-pro-2.html
Yeah but when you do this you lock yourself more in place which feels nice but that leads you into other issues which really does put you on the path to the full monty.
