Racing school and such

You have many, many options.

What do you want to accomplish with your driving?

 

es you need to define exactly what formation you want, exactly what type of car you will be tracking in the future.

Also, no matter what, do as much karting as you can: controlling a kart in all situations is the distilled essence of driving.

Go to your local kart track also when it rains: Senna did that as a little kid...

 

You can thrash around karting or dabbling for a long time with mixed results, but you are right on the money looking for a pro school to start out with.

There are four of five "front line" programs available to choose from. Each has pros and cons, but they're all well respected and have been around a long time. In order of relevance to what I think you're looking for.

1) Skip Barber Racing School. The gold standard. Best and most broadly experienced instructor corps, several large US "bases," including Road America (Greg Borland, Regional Chief Instructor), Laguna Seca (Rand Buck, RCI), Lime Rock Park (Jason Holehouse, RCI and the incomparable Bruce MacInnes...), Road Atlanta and Sebring (Terry Earwood, RCI). Widest variety of cars, types of schools and over twenty separate programs. Probably the best place to start. The Regional Race Series (formula cars) and the MX-5 Cup (sports cars) Series are an ideal place to figure out where you are in the general scheme of things. Tell 'em I sent you.

2) Jim Russell Racing School. California location. Long history, new cars, good instructors.

3) Bob Bondurant. If you like big cars, this is the place. Like it's namesake, "might makes right" with time in Corvettes and other V-8 cars. One base location in Arizona. Good instructors.

4) Bertil Roos. Owner and Chief Instructor Dennis Macchio is a no-nonsense font of good information. East Coast based, they're at VIR next month for nearly two weeks with school programs. I recommend this school to a lot of people looking for more advanced techniques AFTER they learn a sound basis at SBRS.

There are other smaller schools that are very good (Dane Pitaressi and Danny McKeever come to mind) but most are very spotty in both talent and execution...

I'm sure others qualified to talk will chime in here (b-mak? Dr. Who? WCH?) but my advice is to get the basics down first, and there's no better place, IMO, than Skip.

 

It sounds as though you are a novice, and that's a good reason to follow Peter's advice. Too many people spend a lot of time breaking old bad habits. At SBRS they start from the basics much as my old friends at tha Elf-Winfield Racing. Once you have attended one or more of these schools, a kart will give you lots of cheaper seat time and that's invaluable as you decide your next step. Goood luck and stay within youer car, too many people try to get a handle on a car far too fast or complicated for their expertise.

 

Getting into a kart as soon as you finish a school program would be nice. And in fact karting will help you deal with the sensations of speed that you would experience, rather than jumping into a formula car (after barber i assume) where you have to go "your own pace", which is generally slower than someone with lotsw of seat time. It's a steep learning curve and it takes years to attain the skill to even be remotely respectable on track, with decent speed and times.

 

I probably have the least experience of anybody here. But, based on my past observations, actual knowledge is not a prerequisite for posting on Ferrari Chat.

Since I'm guessing that you are in your 20s or 30s, I'm going to assume that you don't have any fantasies about turning pro. But if you do, you should set your sights on participating in the Skip Barber racing series, which means that you will have to take their racing school. Unless you have a really big bank account, you're going to have to get noticed to get a seat in a pro car, and the Skippy series is the only "minor league" road racing series of note in the US. (If there are others, I'd love to hear about them.)

Again, my experience is limited, but it appears that there are two basic types of front runners in the Skippy races: (1) Young Bucks in their late teens who, after racing for many years, still have the dream of getting a pro seat, (2) Hot Shoes who used to have the dream, but can't give it up even after reality hits. Either way, for 10 laps, everybody is giving it everything they have in spec cars. It is real 10/10s racing.

For club racing, I would still recommend the Skippy racing schools. Although, my experience is limited to Skippy and Bondurant. Because you are in Michigan, you may want to check out the Jim Russell school at Mt. Tremblant. I have heard good things about the Russell program, and Mt. Trem has got to be one of the best tracks in the world.

After completing a program, I highly recommend finding a racing coach and start using data acquisition. This will greatly accelerate (sic) your learning curve.

Finally, I made the decision to stay away from karts. If it doesn't have a full roll cage and a six-point belts, I'm not going to take it on the track. If you go to a kart race, pay attention to how many racers have tire tracks on their suits.

Dale

 

In my 3 years in the French karting championship (1984-86, long ago when I weighed a bit less) I had two 80mph barrel rolls hit many other karts and fences, was even pushed into a wall which collapsed (towards the other side thankfully) but never suffered an injury. A friend of mine did get killed (missed his braking point, shot up a dirt bank, the chassis went up and then fell down crushing his rib cage: freak event) but he was the only fatality in the country in about 3 years. Karting is one of the safest forms of motorsport -remember that is an oxymoron- and there is a reason for the lack of seat belts, you are meant to be thrown out in a roll and it works, 99,9%.

As someone posted earlier, yes driving round and round without thinking analyzing and improving oneself is a waste of time but any one with half a brain can learn and improve: mileage mileage mileage is the most important thing.

 

I raced Karts as a kid, then went to skip barber went through their program, and then did the racing series with skip. I highly recomend going to skip, they have the very best instructors, and a fantastic program. its more then just a driving school, they teach you how to race, green flag starts, drafting, passing, most importantly how to win! If you want to race they have a great racing series, they go to all the major tracks in the US, you can run an entire season for about $30K.

 

I'm still sticking with my question above. The OP has evidently disappeared.

 

Sounds like you should take the Skip Barber route, then. Take their schools, then move into their regional race series. Continue to do that until you're competitive enough to move into the national series. You can also sprinkle in some karting in between weekends. At this point, I would just focus on this. You're not going to be immediately ready for the national series, because there are kids in that series who have years of karting and other car racing experience.

 

first off, there is no money to be made in racing, even in higher ranks of racing, drivers pay out of their pocket to be there. dont let that discourage you, its still fun.
I think the barber series is where you want to be, open wheel racing is very fun, but its not something you can do when your older, but you learn so much from doing it. and the competition in the world class, many of the guys in the barber series go on to Star Mazda, Indy Lights, ALMS, and Grand Amm. Skip does have a scholarship program, and it works great at propelling drivers

 

Assuming that you have no racing experince, I would recommend that you read Skip Barber's book, Going Faster before you take the Skip Barber's race school.
You will get a lot more out of the school.
http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-Mastering-Race-Driving/dp/0837602262/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_b

 

Very good points to consider. Something else to think about is the number of SCCA classes where you can lease a ride. There are a lot of costs to consider, like tires, lodging, fuel, transportation for yourself, tires, spares, fuel, etc. Spend some time in the paddock of a regional and pay close attention to which cars require the most attention and which seem the most fun. Formula________ can be attractive but they also tend to be the more attention-demanding cars. Good luck and have fun. Should be able to get a lot of great opinions on this site. I did Derek Daly and Skip Barber. You can't get enough good instruction, and ultimately the racing is why you get into it, so don't hesitate to dive in.

 

That's a great book and the first on my recommended bibliography.

Actually, instructor Carl Lopez wrote it with a whole bunch of his friends. The "pearls" from the other instructors sprinkled throughout are priceless and relevant throughout your racing career.

-Peter

 

If you happen to find a place in the u.s. that has a rally school, give me a pm, and i will do it with you. I have been looking for one for a lonnggg time.

EDIT: just because you can't or won't go pro. I know a guy who ahs been racing in scca and occasionally gets to drive for other teams in a different spec. Which can also be fun, and free.

 

I started at your age and look at me know! lolllzzzzz

Nonetheless, start with a name school, do a proper multi-day program and go from there. Take advantage of your instructors at every opportunity. Have fun and go to a great destination like Tremblant, for example.

Attitude is the most important factor in your development as a driver and you seem to have the right one. Lose the typical driver ego and you'll go faster. It is also a truism that you never cease to learn in motor racing. I learned more about my driving last weekend than I did in a long time--a new car and a new track can test your limits and abilities, evidently.

To learn the fine points, you'll need to get wheel-to-wheel experience. Data analysis will also help--I think Doc mentioned above--as well as good people, from crew chiefs to engineers to driver coaches!

 

I would not start with school right off the bat. If you haven't driven a racecar/kart around a track for some sessions, there is some basic knowledge you will need (i.e basic trajectories, braking distances, eye to hand coordination, over/understeer, etc) to get the most out of a racing school course.

As it was pointed out, buy a good book and study it like it was a final exam. Ayrton Senna wrote Principles of Race Driving that went out of print but is available used.
http://www.amazon.com/Ayrton-Sennas-Principles-Race-Driving/dp/1874557403 Read a book, get some track time and then go to a racing school.

If you are serious about eventually racing formula cars karting gives you the start you need. Then move on to other series.

One more thing, the level of racing you'll go into will be a function of how much you have available to spend. Most likely it will be years before you'll get some sponsorship.

 

"Attitude is the most important factor in your development as a driver"

+1000.

 

Thank you. That's why they pay me the big bucks.

 

you are most welcome!

I was a junior instructor for Jim Russel in England 20 years ago when I was racing Formula Ford and Formula Renault, nothing senior, just taking hundreds of punters round the track at Donington as the Brits say (punter is a horrible Brit word that means sucker customer I always resented it since I felt that everyone deserved respect and absence of cynicism) I took people out in sedans (sorry saloon cars as they say) and then let them drive: after a few hundred people you soon guess how someone is going to drive from the way they come across: humanity comes in all shapes sizes, skills...and atitudes right!?

 

Friends who taught at Jack Russell on your side of the Atlantic didn't use the term 'punter', but rather 'billy'. I don't know the origin of it, but we have adopted it.

 

Now that you mentioned this it sort of clicked. After several years in karting I attended Winfield ELF racing school at Paul Ricard and instructors treated many drivers with some degree of disdain, as you said like "punters". At least initially until some of us showed we could actually drive and be quick around the track. I had thought that this was just because French people/instructors were annoyed to speak English while in France.

In any case my experience at Winfield was great and learned a lot. It was the best combination, racing school and vacation at Cote d'Azur.

 

I race and have taught at many different schools and they are only as good as your instructor. If you have no experience on the track at all I would do an event in a sedan with the instructor in the seat next to you. The learning curve will be much faster even though you will be going slower. Also choose a low power "momentum" car like a Formula Ford if you decide open wheel or a Miata if you go with fenders and doors. It's too easy to cover up mistakes with horse power and it's too hard to teach someone anything when the are screaming into the turns at such a high rate of speed they don't have time to think about going into the turn properly.

Nothing you have ever done on the street will compare. The less you think you know about driving the faster you will learn. One of my best students was a friend of mine with a Honda S2000 that was never a car guy or drove crazy or fast. He went out with no intention of driving fast or thinking he had any talent and drove slow at first. By the end of the day he was on smooth, on the line and faster than just about anyone on the track. It was a Ferrari event at Summit Point and most of the Ferraris could not keep up with him.

Try to find an instructor that has done well in a momentum class. FF, Spec Racer, Spec Miata, FV, Barber Series. If they are winning in a class like that then they should know what they are doing. Depends on what area the track is but some of the marque clubs can give you a good start for under $200 with your street car.

As for a racing career goes your driving talent has very little to do it. I know lots of incredible drivers that can't get a break and know plenty of pros that can't drive. It's all about money and marketing. You bring in money and they will find you a car. If you don't have the right "look" or personality or the business sense it doesn't matter how good a driver you are. Unless you are in a heavily televised series getting sponsors will not be easy and they don't want to hear anything about how good a driver you are. They speak $$$ and you need to understand advertising and marketing and have a business plan showing how you can make them money before you approach them. We had a newspaper for a sponsor for a couple years and the other racers used to come up to us and ask us how many $.25 newspapers they had to sell to make up for the money they gave us. The answer was none. There where only a couple thousand spectators at the track and if everyone of them bought a paper they would have still lost money on us. They set up a hospitality tent and went to all the car dealerships in the area and invited the owners, GM's and families up to the track and were trying to sell $1000 half page ads in their automotive section. They only needed to get one dealership to start using them for their weekly ads to make the sponsorship work. We wined and dined the Owners and GM's and gave the whole familly tee shirts and tours of the pits and pictures sitting in the cars. We could care less if anyone at the track bought a newspaper especially since a good bit were not even in the delivery area. It only worked becuase they had a salesperson that liked the racing and was willing to come to the races on the weekends.