Rain in Brazil

It's amazing how many people are still locked onto Hungary '06. But was that a case of Massa not being good in the wet, or the Bstone intermeds not being good in the damp (compared to the Michs)? (Yes, Shumi did okay with them, but then he's Schumi. --- And wasn't it after that race that people started saying that Shumi was "losing it"?) I think Massa's gotten a bum rap that should have been marked against the tires.

Check out Massa's performances this year in the wet, and -- other than spinning the tires on the rims leaving the pits at the end of the EuroGP -- he's done a pretty impressive job. I remind you that not only did he hold off Alonso in the rain in Germany, but Massa (and Alonso) were about the only two cars that didn't go off in the corner that collected Hamilton and half a dozen cars.

But the boys in red better go for the pole -- if Lewis is on pole, the race may start under safety car again.
(Although will Massa be in green again, this year? )

 

Somehow your examples are counter productive:

- MS lapped Massa in Hungary in 06 (BTW: Alonso passed MS in the same race on the outside of a turn)
- Massa gave up a sure victory to Alonso in the Nuerburgring rain
- Massa went off the track numerous times in Fuji, only saved by the concrete run off areas
- Massa couldn't hold Alonso in Shanghai, a race that Kimi won

Face it, Massa is simply not good in the rain. Kimi, Lewis and Alonso are.

PS: No TC in 08. That'll be interesting.

 

Meaning that they are "counter" to your bias against Phil?

"- MS lapped Massa in Hungary in 06 (BTW: Alonso passed MS in the same race on the outside of a turn)"
Which just demonstrates further that the Bstone intermeds were getting spanked by the Michs. Massa wasn't as good as Schumi at driving a car with bad tires. Big surprise there.

"- Massa gave up a sure victory to Alonso in the Nuerburgring rain"
Massa held off Alonso most of the race, rain and dry, until that last set of tires. Have you ever driven on unbalanced tires? Once Alonso got around Massa, he took off into the distance -- that speed differential wasn't there most of the race, just on that one set of tires.

"- Massa went off the track numerous times in Fuji, only saved by the concrete run off areas"
... as did Kimi and almost everyone else.

"- Massa couldn't hold Alonso in Shanghai, a race that Kimi won"
Translation: "Massa didn't crash Alonso out so Kimi could win the championship".

You seem to have a very one-track evaluation of what "good" driving is, based on the points -- and on your annoyance that Massa isn't running interference for Kimi. Massa isn't contracted to play "Rubens" for Kimi, he isn't going to roll over to hand Kimi points that the Kimster didn't earn. Kimi took way too long adapting to the Ferrari, so he's playing catch up. Too little, too late. Massa has done as good a job this year as Kimi has.

Eliminate some of the *team* fubars (fueling, wrong tires at Japan, mechanical issues), and Massa would be right in the middle of the championship fight, along with Kimi and Hamilton, and Alonso would be playing "catch up".

Massa doesn't have Schumi's ability to nurse a sick set of tires. But, as you said, even Schumi on bad tires couldn't hold off Alonso on better tires. Which proves what?

The main reason Ferrari is trailing in the WDC isn't the car or the drivers -- it's the losses from team "front line" management. There have been "preventable errors" that have hurt both Kimi and Massa.

 

weve got 4 or so drivers who can drive it well though

LH
FA
KR
JB

 

+1 Great post, very intelligent

 

+1 just for the record ... since nothing will change Andreas' mind - unless Massa takes the dc in 08 _maybe.

In the interim let me save you a post - "He won't" (Andreas).

 

Webber has wet skill. I think one has to include Vettel at this point.

 

Why must everyone pull the what-ifs for Massa? Who cares about his fueling issues, wrong tires, etc.. etc. There is no one on the grid (that had a shot at the Championship) that got f*cked more this year than Raikkonen. He's had two DNF's, neither of which have been his fault. Every race he's finished, he's scored points in, and he's won six races and podiumed eleven.

How exactly has Massa matched that? Alonso and Hamilton both have had only one DNF, with Alonso and Hamilton's in the past two races, and their accidents were their own faults, not a mechanical gremlin. Massa screwed himself by exiting the pits under red/black/whatever to induce his other self-inflicted DNF. Kimi's won two more races than Massa has, and has podiumed twice more as well, all while supposedly "learning" the new car. The ONLY thing I can say about Massa is that he's edging Raikkonen in fastest laps...by one. Big deal. Felipe was flying around while Kimi had his revs turned down; he was too busy winning.

Bottom line: if you want to say Felipe got screwed this year, I've got no problem with that, but please give Kimi his due as well.

 

Massa gave him one podium - otherwise they would be equal at 10.
Out of the races he finished Massa didn't score in .hu - maybe you recall why. Annnd he started last twice.
Kimi won 5. Massa 3.

But who cares about stats - one's pick is always the biggest victim.
The important thing is that Kimi's def learned the car since Monza

Saying Massa is as good as Kimi is giving everyone their due,
and Massa has been giving him more than his due so there's no problem.

 

LOL

By now I know quite a bit about where some of you stand and could probably do the arguments for you. I guess we need a fresh season with new drivers and races to come up with new stuff. Or we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

A dry race expected in Brazil
Thu 18 Oct, 08:18 AM

Friday practice could be wet at the Interlagos circuit, but F1's 2007 championship decider is expected to be played out in dry conditions for qualifying and the race.

The Brazilian meteorology institute Climatempo said on Thursday that the area outside of downtown Sao Paulo is now expected to be dry on both Saturday and Sunday, with warm temperatures for the final race of the season.

In another development prior to the race weekend, it has emerged that extensive resurfacing has taken place at the circuit - which may explain Bridgestone's debatable decision to supply the softest Monaco-style selection of tyres for the usually demanding layout.

"The surface is far smoother now," Interlagos' chief engineer Luis Ernesto Morales said in a statement on Wednesday

 

...that is NOT good news...didnt we all agree on the rain?...Now I´LL have to take out the feathers for the rain dance...

...we needed a harsher environment to see if Hamilton will make a HUGE mistake like the last one...or even Alonso making his so he´ll trip out Hamilton...

our theories are going down the drain...

 

As far as I'am aware a smoother track should suit Ferrari better, a bumper one Mclaren..

As for rain the main contenders are all good in the wet and dry.