Any of you guys tracked in the rain?
yep...degree of difficulty appears to depend on the tyres. HUGE difference...more than I'd have imagined, at the time
Aircon, Besides lower speeds with rain tires did the f355 (thats what you track I think) handle just like in the dry? Did you notice more understeer/oversteer. Did the rain exacerbate problems in your set-up?
Well...I don't drive in the rain here in california... Except once. I track a 348 which is modified with a cage welded to the suspension and fully gutted so it does not act like a 348 challenge but it is still a Ferrari on stiff front springs lighter rears and revalved shocks, solid delrin suspension. In the dry I like to pitch the car into turns sometimes I'll trail brake to get the car to pivot but I can drive with the rear at the max slip angle for good traction and the car drifts nicely in 4 wheel very neutral at say 120mph on a big sweeper. My problem is my one data point driving in the rain. The car under steered so badly as to make the car undriveable. I could not throttle steer or trail brake to get the car to turn. The only way to turn the car was to slow down ridiculosly. It was so bad I swear I could get around the track faster in my truck towing my tailer! I will admit to using full tread DOT dry race tire as a rain tire. Tirerack said I could use a Kumho victoracer that way. So the question is I have too many questions....Did the rain bring out a handling problem that I could drive though when dry? Is there a real rain tire that makes all the difference in the world and my problem is really tires? Does dry balance not equal wet balance such that a totally diffferent set-up in the wet is required? I though about disconnecting my front rollbar. I did air down my front tires and air up by rears as much as I dared and it did help but not enough.
To attempt to improve my wet driving and sensitivity, I decided to go out in the pouring rain on slicks. It went 'okay' for the first few laps, but my pace was horrendous and I couldn't get any heat into the tyres. I practiced using the throttle as a form of human traction control during braking. When I did two 360s at 150km/h after hitting a puddle of water, that was when I decided there was no more to be learnt today...
FBB, try disconnecting the REAR anti roll bar instead of the front.... and then soften ALL the shocks bump and rebound as much as you dare. But yeah... tyres are where it's at. A well sorted 360C wiith perfect balance in the dry will still need to be trimmed out for wet running, but the RARB and some well rehearsed shock changes are usually enough if the weather changes. If you disconnect an anti roll bar, be very careful about fouling rims on roll etc
Yes. Wish i could a nice 360CS, but only a lowly modded 308. Used Mich Pilot Sport PS2 tires and added some pressure + adjusted shocks (softer). To make matters worse, the ambient temp was only 45F so cold and raining. The guys with track tires and big power were having problems big time with sliding around and, as mentioned, if one hits a puddle with the wring tire selection you can call it a day and pack it up. The PS2 tires did well... and my limited HP/TQ was a benefit to some degree (per se). If you can adjust the brake bias, move it a click or so to increase the rear than you would use for dry day setup. Of course i'd rather be track driving on a warm and dry day, but rain day is a good learning experience.
I won my first SCCA race in the rain Tires make the difference. I can not see why anybody would want to use slicks in the rain. There is really nothing to be learned there. That is simply insane. Its like going into an ice rink with 10inch high heels. Will you be able to walk better after you crossed the rink that way? No, you end up with a broken foot and won't be walking for a while. Good rain tires are the key. Soft compound with full rain groves. Victoracer is a decent tire. Certainly not a rain tire or a rain capable tire. Just because it is DOT rated does not mean the tire is acceptable for the rain. The idea is to get as much water pushed away from the contact surface as possible before the tire meets the road. The more water accumulates under the tire, the less contact you have, the less power you can bring onto the surface. If you do encounter rain every now and then, have a set of rains. I do for both the 360 and the 355 Challenge. Will eventually get one for the Miata as well. So far I did manage with Avon DOT slicks but did not have full rain conditions yet. They hold up in wet pretty well though
I didn't have a set of wets and I didn't feel like packing up and going home. Ayrton Senna was hopeless in his first few wet races. To solve this, he made an effort of going out and practicing every time it rained. BTW, despite my umteenth spins, I recovered from every one (including the ones at 150km/h). Slicks in the wet is a good skill to have if you're not allowed pitstops and it starts raining in race, or for the time after it starts raining but before you can pit.
James: yes, rain experience is great. This is where you can win or lose a race. Michael has mastered it. Going out on slicks in the rain at 150km/h does not qualify as practice in my eyes. That is a suicide deathwish. Hey you recovered. Thank the stars for it and don't try it again. Next time you may not get as lucky. Rather change your pit strategy. Have a wireless internet laptop in the pits and monitor weather. That is what we do in GrandAm. When the rain is coming be ready and be the first in when the first drop hits the pavement. You have no idea how many positions you gain while everybody else is turtling around the track.
Unless you race and need to know how to setup and drive you're car in the rain why would you want to on a track day? It's not just you out there "learning" there ARE others. Think I'd head for the bar. I'm much better and safer in those sort of wet conditions ... Bob S.
Phil is spot on! SOFT IS GRIP! This is exactly what I do. Disconnect rear anti roll and soften the front and rear bump and rebound to minimun settings.
I have read all the posts and thank you all for your replys. My problem is not "grip" but severe "turn-in to apex understeer" in the wet. I understand the concept of softening the rear per FFixer for grip. That is the reason for Stiff fron springs and softer rears as my standard dry set-up. In my case I don't think my wet problem of understeer would be helped by uncoupling the rear antisway since I grip fine on this end of the car. Would'nt I want to decouple the front anti sway for a softer front for better turn-in here? My thinking is that Martin's implication here is that tires are where it is at. Perhaps this is where i really need to start first before I tweek an end. So Martin what do you like as a rain tire? How about the rain version of the Pirelli slicks you get from Bob Woodman?
