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Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by tonyh, Mar 31, 2004.
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Willie Webber is a master negotiator - how Ralf can be the second highest earner in F1 comes down to his use of the family surname rather than skill level.
Actually, think of it from Toyota's point of view. They are willing to match Ferrari in racing budget. They have great engineers and production capability. They need help building a great racing team and they need great driving. Grabbing MS is the best way to get those two ingredients... but they're not like to pull that off. What's the next best option?
They can possibly get a better driver behind the wheel... possibly... but with Ralf they also get someone with fairly intimate knowledge of how MS helped Ferrari build an unmatched team. If Ralf can bring them even 60% of that, with Williams losing its drivers and Mclaren struggling, Toyota could catapult into the top tier.
Ralf has more than just the family name... he's a solid driver... and he has more knowledge of MS's success than anybody outside of the Ferrari team. That's worth something! Pair Ralf with a young, super-talented driver, and Toyota could be making a very strategic investment in a bright future.
Makes sense to me... its, at least, a pretty reasonable gamble given their budget. Ralf owns some pretty valuable knowlege and connections via his older brother.
If Ralf is really going to be paid that much then well done to Willi and more fool you lot at Toyota! Although if he gets £60m over 5 years, that's the same as he was earning at Williams. The reason I think Toyota were foolish to pay it is that I'm sure Williams didn't want him and I don't think any other team would be willing to pay big bucks for him. I think Toyota could have paid much less for him.
He is an average driver. I don't think he knows that much about Michael's work methods. Surely if he did he'd use them himself! He's a pain to work with and isn't much liked by the team. Michael is adored by his team. I doubt the team will learn much from Ralf.
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Compairing Ralf to Michael is like compairing apples to oranges. Ralf will bring nothing in the form of team building to Toyota. He does not have that type of pesonalaity. Even though he is close to his brother you can bet that they are not disscussing what Ferrari is working on next and vice versa.
Toyota I think has the budget to become a F1 powerhouse but they are just wasting there resources on trying to copy what Ferrari is doing. Kind of like a gambler playing playing Blackjack and telling the dealer to hit when he has a 18 or higher showing.
Even if Ralf knows Michaels methods, he doesn't have the speed of his brother.
If he's not in that zone, he can't advise Toyota or anybody else what to do to the car to help him once he's there.
AMEN, that is a FACT. The number of brilliant drives Ralph has executed can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Riding Michael's coattails IMO.
Nice pic, is that Ralph or Juan Taco?
Bunte magazine :
Ralf Schumacher does not talk to his brother Michael about Formula One any more because he is eager to win the title himself. "We still talk to each other like in the past, but Formula One is a taboo topic because we've become such rivals professionally,"
He better should if he ever want's to win a world championship
Could not have said it any better! Fischella was adored by the Jordan team when him and Ralf were teammates, they couldn't wait to get rid of Ralf.
Actually Toyota isn't getting such a bad deal: Them being a German team they can cash in marketingwise on Ralf being a German as well.
Mr. 20% (Willi) finally admitted that he spread the Renault rumours himself to keep the negotiation interesting. As I always said: A total sleeze ball.
WHY WOULD HE ADMIT THAT!?!? What a moron! He wanted to boast? He just slammed his street cred through the floor.
Ralf....the next JV!! Jacques of BAR HONDA FAME or is it infamy?
It's Juan, Ralf is up Juan's butt looking for gold.
In the last sentence of the Sun article, it says;
"The source added: Ralf is 28 and feels this could be his only chance of joining a team which he can help transform just like Michael has done." You just can't form a team around your finger. He is in for the hardest work in his life if he is to carry Toyota on his back up to the F1 sumit. And it's, of course not a sure bet that he can do it. I can count the number of drivers that have done it, on my d**k.
Weber is a moron.
I find it hard to believe he has any cred left. But I guess the teams have to deal with him because he officially represents the Schueys.
When Ferrari Spa realized what a moron Weber was, they gave MS his official speaker girl to represent himself as a Ferrari driver.
Even a leper's hand will do! I have never seen a brilliant drive from RS.
With those initials maybe he should do a Mcrae backwards and go into rallying.
Amen, but lets wait and see . I also agree with the comment of Toyota following instead of thinking for themselves and finding what works for them.
if Ralf can't help bmw-williams beating ferrari(which is still miles better than toyota) with his skills and his brother's knowledge, how can he help toyota going to the top?
Keep in mind that I am NOT saying a Ralf+Toyota combo is going to necessarily succeed... I'm just thinking about it from their point of view... they are spending $300M to win... obviously they think they can do it... so, how best to do it given they can't buy MS? To answer your question...
Williams doesn't need what Ralf has... Williams has had a strong team for many years... Williams is unlikely to even let Ralf have much of a leadership role. At least from Toyota's point of view, Williams needs what Toyota has more than it needs what Ralf has.
Toyota, OTOH, likely considers itself to be one of the greatest engineering companies on the planet (everyone else does, so surely they do) and one of the greatest and highest reliability manufacturers on the planet (ditto)... the text books are written about them! So, what does Toyota most need? Experience with great F1 teams and techniques and a great driver!
Ralf undoubtedly had (probably not today; but I'll wager he did from 94-99) great visibility to his brother's approach to F1 teams; and he has had an inside look at Williams approach to F1 teams. That's a lot of first-hand and second-hand experience. Plus Ralf is an experienced, solid driver. Not a WC driver... but a solid one.
So, as Toyota, you buy Ralf to help you build a great F1 team and you buy a super-talented young driver... one who has the talent to grow into a world champion.
Not too unreasonable if you ask me. Now the point that they probably could have gotten Ralf much cheaper is probably also valid. So, Toyota's probably not the best of negotiators... perhaps getting spooked by the whole Ralf goes to Renault thing.
And don't forget the whole marketing approach: German team and German driver. That is priceless in a European market.
I think this must be what swung it in his favour. I really don't believe that they were interested in Ralf's experience in team building, because I don't believe he has any. Ralf is very different to his brother. If he had really learned anything from Michael he would have won more races and he would be more popular with his team. The Williams mechanics prefer working with JPM to working with RS. I'm sure every mechanic in the pitlane would love to work with MS!
BUUUWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA!!! LOL
Oh boy, that's hilarious, the Ralph fans are gonna come out!! LOL