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Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by msdesignltd, Feb 8, 2005.
i have to say the comments about the boobs has to be the most hilarious part of this thread.
I think that there were a lot of boobs in the auction tent at Barrett-Jackson...some made of silicone and some not..
Hillarious Jim! Love the boob analogy as well!
I think BigTex answers your question very well with the multiple post replies. Some of us have learnt that you can reply to multiple people in a single post, for example
I disagree. Patina comes simply from not over maintaining a car. Simply drive and race and do not have a heart attack over every stone chip, scratch and oily residue/stain. After another 10 years of play ... restore the car again.
It looks like these cars are restored on a weekly basis
Again horsefly, if RL did not constantly over clean the cars the frames would have dirt on them, etc. But I do believe that one should restore a car to how the manufacturer would like to have made it, and thus the best it should be. The thing is they should then use it as a car ... I know that many America muscle cars are restored painstakingly to just painting some parts with primer only and redoing the factory hand written part codes on diffs, etc. ... that is over doing it in my book ... but I cannot argue that it is not correct .
I'm still waiting for RL to challenge me to cut of one testicle for the LM ... either one, I don't care ... but I'm keeping the other one
I guess that it's all up to personal taste. I probably would have left the McLaren "damage". But I don't think that I would forgo using modern paint compounds and other technology to achieve longevity. Look at Pamela Anderson: Natural beauty with considerable technological enhancement. (lets not cloud the debate with the fact that I possess neither rare automobiles nor Pamela)
Just one?! C'mon, make it at least two! A guy in the UK cut off both because his football team won.
I like to see a car left as much as possible untouched and only enhanced because certain parts are not lasting that long (i.e. the chassis and rust). If the paint was a 6/10 and he wanted a 12/10, he should've just left it as a 6. I rather drive the car more than look at it, even if the 250 GTO is the most beautiful car ever
They are phenomenal cars but Ive never seen Ralph & Ive spent A lot of time at various tracks. Ive never heard of him driving his cars on tracks either.
Napolis also has an amazing collection & he knows what they are for
Hey, I like that car in post #55.
I like my cars just like I like my women.
Old, dirty, rode hard and put away wet.
I posted this request in Showroom also. Please excuse the duplication.
I would very much like to have high res copies of the photos on the first page of this thread (Ralph Lauren cars), if you would be so kind. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org. Thank you very much!!
no doubt about it, the race cars were workhorses and treated as such.
One of my favorite passages of all time describing the feel and treatment these cars got when they were run in anger was by the great automotive writer, Ken W. Purdy. This following is an excerpt from his book "The Kings of the Road" and is about a practice session at Sebring - I believe 1956. Pardon the length, but I think everyone here will enjoy it.
"Years ago I was looking at three cars in the Ferrari pits at Sebring. It had rained in the afternoon and the Florida sun, dropping to the rim of the great plain, shone red in the black pools of water on the circuit. There were only a few cars running in practice, howling separately in the distance, out of sight most of the time. The blood-red Ferrari cars would go a few laps as soon as the mechanics were finished with them. These were stark, open two-seaters. Their paint was flat and crude. The bucket seats were upholstered in wide-wale corduroy. Everything else in the cars except the wood steering wheels was bare unpainted metal, much of it roughly finished. Heavy welding seams joined the thin tubes of the frames. Shiny streaks here and there showed where oil had been mopped up. A man next to me turned, remembering the old pilots' gag: "You wouldn't send the kid up in THAT!" he said. A small, dark, red-eyed mechanic got into one of the cars. An ignition key looped in a piece of sisal wrapping twine stuck out of the dashboard. He leaned on it with the heel of his hand and a bare-metal clanging and clattering began. You wanted to move away before the thing exploded. It fired suddenly, all of a piece, and pumped out a gout of blue smoke that drifted low over the wet grass of the infield. The mechanic sat there with his foot in it for five minutes.
There was somebody in each of the other cars, and they were running, too. Juan Manuel Fangio materialized, pear-shaped in a rain jacket. He looked sleepy, he looked bored, he looked indifferent, until one noticed the incessant flickering of his eyes. The mechanic yelled somethin into his ear. Fangio let him see a sad smile, he shrugged massively. He got into the automobile, stared briefly at the instruments and then he went away and the other two, Eugenio Castellotti and Luigi Musso, howled after him, down the straight and under the bridge and around the corner out of sight. We could hear them through the esses and into the Warehouse road and then not again until they showed up on the back straight, the three of them in echelon astern, the howling of the engines squeezed down by distance to a thin buzz, their progress across the horizon apparently so leisurely that you wondered why this would be called racing. They were running around 140 mph.
They went down through the gears for the hairpin turn, a 180-degree reversal, the rear wheels spinning, or trying to, and then sudenly they were in the hole at the bottom of the finishing straight, drifting up to the edge of the concrete, coming past the pits, Fangio first, sitting there limp as pasta, the Castellotti, then Musso, all of them turning 7000 rpm and then one after another they shifted up a gear, three successive explosive 'whacks' as the engines bit, and they were gone again.
They ran over the five-mile circuit a dozen laps like that, tight together, so stable they seemed locked to the ground like buildings, but flying past light as deer at the same time. Wet with rain, the hurried-on paint glistened like oven-fired enamel as the cars screamed down the shiny concrete chute, the drivers sitting back from the wheels, their arms straight.
These were beautiful objects, perfect of their kind, there was nothing of crudity or starkness about them now. I was hard to believe that any of the other sixty cars that would start the race the next day could run ahead of the red Ferraris, and none of them did."
As far as I know, RL does not track his own cars. However, I do recall his 375 Plus being featured and piloted/raced (probably by AD) at Laguna Seca in the Ferrari, Victory by Design video. Also, RL and other members of his family exercise at least some of the vehicles in the collection fairly frequently. I have personally witnessed him driving his 300SL in Greenwich, CT. BTW, there is an interview with Ralph Lauren in this months Octane.
"These were stark, open two-seaters. Their paint was flat and crude. The bucket seats were upholstered in wide-wale corduroy. Everything else in the cars except the wood steering wheels was bare unpainted metal, much of it roughly finished. Heavy welding seams joined the thin tubes of the frames. Shiny streaks here and there showed where oil had been mopped up. A man next to me turned, remembering the old pilots' gag: "You wouldn't send the kid up in THAT!" he said."
Exactly how it was from someone who was there. That's all I'm saying.
BTW pls. see my post re "Vintage Fuel Safety"
Great post Bryan.
Thanks for the memories.
about 20 years ago RL ran into me with his Ferrari Daytona Spyder. It's the
black one in the photographs. He was driving the car in Sag Harbor NY and pulled out of his parking space without looking into the front of my Shelby
Ford Pickup(don't ask, long story), Damage to Ferrari one crumpled rear
quarter panel, damage to Ford one slight stratch to front bumper, which was
already showing plently of wear from pushing around race cars.
RL jumps out and yells at me "do you know who I am ?" as if that gave him
a right of way in all situations. I replied that he was a fellow with a bent
sport car. He got so mad at that remark that I thought he would have
a heart attack. he told me that I had damaged a very valuable vehicle,
I didn't take the bait and pointed out that I had the right of way and he must
have been not looking to miss my huge white with blue stripped pickup.
He clearly thought about it for a second calmed down and got back into
his F. and left without offering me his insurance card or liscence. I thought
about calling the police to see if they wanted to follow up,but as my truck wasn't really damaged and RL is rather litigious, I decided to let it drop.
So I guess that he does drive his cars, but unfortunatley he think that he owns the road too.
One riot. One Ranger
One smart ass question. One post response.
Most of ya'll know I ran it WAY up in Zupra's Cafe!
Well, he HAD to repaint that one then, we'll cut him some slack!
I don't know the man, but if that's the way he really is, I find it sad that he owns the cars he does...
I would probably lose my cool too if I had just cost myself $250,000+
I am personally very torn. I think it's very hard. I love these cars because of their history, and I do a lot of research into it. But I also think they are art. And like art that I hang on the wall, I totally understand people who just want to just look at the artistic perfection, and feel that they are ruining it by chipping up the front. Jim, you wouldn't let dust collect on your Renoir, even though it's pretty easy just to wipe all that dust off once it gets to a "2" down from a "10." There's something to be said for keeping these cars pristine and pure and totally untouched, because they look freaking amazing and are art, pure and simple. That said, I love the history, love what these cars were like in their period, and I love when owners push them hard. I can see both sides of the debate, and I sympathize with both.
Read and think about Bryan's post. These's are pieces of history not works of Art. History in a race car is VERY IMPORTANT. I really beleive that the best 0846 is going to get is what's now my car. If exactly what 0846 was in photo 55 existed today it would be worth 25 million US dollars maybe more.
For many reasons that history is gone forever. Sh it happens, BUT if one acts as a custodian as opposed to a owner of jewlery the history can be there for others to see and that is very important. Go to the Henry Ford Museum compare J5 with these cars. J5 should be restored to running condition but it should NOT be turned into a piece of jewlery.
Thanks for the link. I really enjoyed the restoration slide shows.
Jim, I think I agree, but as I say, I am very torn, becasue unlike you I can also see their value as art, as jewelry. And I understand this reluctance to ruin that look of perfection. The difference is that some people look at a car that looks like it's never been sat in and doesn't see perfection - the look of perfection is the racing helmet sitting in the cracked passenger seat in the pits. The thing is that I think they both look as beautiful - both the museum piece and that rolling piece of racing history. I think they are both beautiful in different ways. I'm just saying I can understand why people differ on this issue. If I had 0846, I'd probably put it in my living room... Or maybe I would take it to Lime Rock and drive the hell out of it every week. I honestly don't know. I don't have to make that decision yet.
best to you,
If all you care about is the artistic aspect of the automobile, then collect pictures, paintings and documentation but let someone else have the actual vehicle. Someone preferably who will not only drive it, but flog the piss out of it as it was designed to have done!
I tend to agree with Jim. Actually, I am probably even further down the "run it hard" road than Jim as I would love to see Jim getting some of the old hot-shoes into his cars and actually see them raced. Get Chris Amon back into the P4 at next years Goodwood Revival and tell him to WIN. Thats what I would REALLY love to see! (btw.... you make that happen Jim, and I'm booking airfare for this fall!).
Over-restored and then garaged/pampered cars are sad. I agree these cars are art, but they are "performance art". I dont think you can really get the right perspective on them unless you view them at full chat on the racetrack going at it wheel to wheel with others of their kind. I watched the Good Revival coverage on Speed Channel and I am not exaggerating when I say it was the absolute best racing I saw anywhere last year. F1???? Crap. Watching the St. Mary's Trophy race at the Revival had me on the edge of my seat. Fantastic cars being raced just as hard as possible, four wheel drifting at 125mph wheel to wheel.... it doesnt get any better!
I was watching the same race. It surprised me that these guys were racing hard and occasionally trading paint as the 330 LMB and another car dented each other, not caring about the value of the cars they were driving! The announcers were noting the value, however!