Cosworth anyone?
Now Horner is pushing for the "independent engine" pipe dream. Does anyone think he'd be doing this if he had an engine deal in his pocket?
If he did have an engine deal, it wouldn't be the first time misdirection has been used in F1. That said, I think it unlikely. Red Bull look like they're in very serious trouble indeed. All the best, Andrew.
Hope they get an engine. Imagine if Red Bull and Torro Rosso are out next year. Even with Haas entering the championship, we'd be down to 18 cars...sounds kind of boring.
Mateschitz has invested A LOT of money into F1, and although Marko is not everyone's cup of tea, Red Bull/Torro Rosso are two teams that F1 can't really do without at this time.
Exactly, + they have about 1200 to 1400 people on the pay-roll. And deserve credit for investing in young talent instead of going for drivers who bring in the most money.
F1 used to be alright without them before. Why should we miss them? Just like the oil money, and the tobacco money, the soft drink money comes and goes. Red Bull brought millions distorted the market and won. Now its management has become too cocky and refuses to accept reality. Just too bad. They began mouthing off Renault as soon as the new formula started; they thought they had a grip on the championship for ever. They put themselves in this tricky situation, and somehow still expect their competitors to rescue them!! Just too bad ...
Funny thing...the engine specs were frozen in 2007. Oh...except Renault (and only Renault) was allowed to develop their engine because it was down on power relative to the others (specifically Mercedes and Ferrari). So...I'm not sure what they could develop then that they can't now. In fact, the token system seems to give the manufacturers a few years to figure it out, whereas before, the 2006 specification was frozen in 2007... Take this article from 2013...replace Red Bull with Mercedes, Christian Horner with Toto Wolff, and Seb for Lewis and the article could go straight to the printer for 2015.
They thought to have a new engine supplier in VAG but that went up in smoke on the dying minutes. If you invest you have a right to play, rest is just politics which every team practices more or less.
Latest reports are that they have secured an engine deal with Renault for 2016, but it may be re-branded as an Infiniti (their sponsor): "But the latest growing rumour is that Red Bull looks set to keep racing next year by using an unbranded Renault engine run independently of the French carmaker. It appears Red Bull and Renault, who are officially splitting, have now agreed a separate deal whereby the team can complete its unbranded 'power unit' next year with its own energy recovery expertise, with the possible support of Mario Illien and the Austrian engine specialists AVL. The rumour has been strengthened by news that Red Bull will finally run the latest specification of Renault's 2015 power unit - which could form the basis of the unbranded engine for 2016 - next weekend in Brazil. "We will probably have the new engine version at least in one car," Dr Helmut Marko confirmed to Speed Week. At the same time, Renault's plans to complete its split with Red Bull and continue in formula one next year as a 'works team' now appear back on track. The delay in the completion of the Lotus buyout had triggered rumours the deal could collapse, but reports now suggest the first Renault staff are now starting work at Enstone. And it is believed the destination of Bob Bell, who has now left his role as technical consultant at Manor, is among the top management of the new Renault works team. Auto Hebdo, a French publication, claims that Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn is poised to rubber-stamp the Lotus deal this week, preceding an official announcement. The report claims Renault may then decide to continue with Lotus team branding, regarding 2016 as a year of transition with Pastor Maldonado and Jolyon Palmer at the wheel."
Can Red Bull build a competitive hybrid system in a few months while Renault hasn´t been able to do so in 3 years? I don´t think so.
They thought, they thought, they thought a lot and nothing came of it. With all their arrogance, the troika Mateschitz, Marko and Horner gambled the house and were caught with their pants down!! You don't P*** off one supplier without having its replacement all tied up with a contract. Any business person, from a corner shop owner to a captain of industry can tell you that. They are not dreamers, they are fool, thinking that Mercedes, Ferrari, VW or even Honda would jump at their command.
I can't remember the last time a team tried a power move like this and have it fail so spectacularly. Shame to see a big team leave but they only have themselves to blame.
Small grids? If Red Bull and Toro Rosso both disappeared from the grid, with HAAS coming in next season you're only losing two cars from the grid, which I doubt you'd notice that much. If only Red Bull disappeared then you'd have the same number of cars on the grid as you've got this year.
I can't remember a time when the stakes were this high. McLaren getting stuck with Peugeot comes to mind.
The difference, is that Red Bull and TR keep bringing in fresh talented faces, not pay drivers. They are the teams that focus on racing rather than BS, and they have been a refreshing harken to days gone by in the 1960's before modern F1.
I am not a fan of the RB attitude but I respect their prowess. Great Newey chassis design and a great eye for driving talent.
Hey, if they go, maybe newey will come take a look over the Ferrari, with the chassis sorted and the engine not far off, we could be back at the top a little quicker, he might even be drawn to us with vettel now at the wheel
My post was in response to a statement about F1 having a small grid if Red Bull and Toro Rosso are no longer in F1. The age/type of drivers Red Bull/Toro Rosso bring into F1, and their attitude to racing has no bearing on the size of the grid whatsoever!
