rear of cylinder head coolant hoses | FerrariChat

rear of cylinder head coolant hoses

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Earl of Cavendish, Aug 16, 2014.

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  1. Earl of Cavendish

    May 22, 2013
    25
    Victoria,Australia
    Full Name:
    James Earl
    I suspect that there may be a leak/weap of coolant from the rear of the motor,it's source is not visible from above or below and the only source I can see from the manual is the small hose which comes from the coolant header tank and disappears around the rear of the motor where it forks into two and connects to the rear of each cylinder head.How do we remove and replace this hose?there does not seem to be much space back there and I would like to know if someone else has done this job without having to remove all the intake manifolds etc.I have recently had the water hoses in the valley between the blocks replaced so I doubt this is the cause
     
  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,166
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    James- If your 550 has not been updated with 575M silicone plenum hoses or Scuderia Rampante Innovations hoses, probably time to do it before one blows and does not just weep.

    To change those plenum hoses, you need to remove the intake manifold to get good access. Good news is there is a much improved intake manifold cover gasket with metal in it that should last quite a while, so getting double duty changing the hoses.
     
  3. dsd

    dsd F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2006
    4,271
    Northern Virginia
    Get the Rampante ones. I wish I had when my cooling hose let go about 6 months. The dealer put in the latest factory parts, I didn't know about the upgrade options until work was done.

    -dsd
     
  4. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 7, 2010
    1,907
    South Germany
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Hi Earl

    I had the same problem 4 years ago.

    With this small plenum hose damage you will have water at the rear of the engine, the water flows to the rear.

    Check the hose which is between the coolant tank and the radiator, it's the same hose diameter, you have to change. If the radiator hose wasn't changed in the past, you can see what bad condition does these 2 hoses have. Mine were hard a nearly closed in the inside. The plenum hose had a crack which opened only at a temperature over about 100° C, so the leak was only at hot engine with enough pressure at the system.

    You have to remove the manifold, like Taz said.
    Change the Thermo switches also, minimum the 2 switches which are responsible for the fans.
    These 2 are cheap (about 15 Euro each).

    Daniel
     
  5. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 7, 2010
    1,907
    South Germany
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Hi Earl

    I had the same problem 4 years ago.

    With this small plenum hose damage you will have water at the rear of the engine, the water flows to the rear.

    Check the hose which is between the coolant tank and the radiator, it's the same hose diameter, you have to change. If the radiator hose wasn't changed in the past, you can see what bad condition does these 2 hoses have. Mine were hard a nearly closed in the inside. The plenum hose had a crack which opened only at a temperature over about 100° C, so the leak was only at hot engine with enough pressure at the system.

    You have to remove the manifold, like Taz said.
    Change the Thermo switches also, minimum the 2 switches which are responsible for the fans.
    These 2 are cheap (about 15 Euro each).

    Daniel
     
  6. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    I've searched the forums with no joy. Please advise where one may find the improved manifold cover gasket? And is this different from just a "manifold gasket?"

    Thanks,

    ~Troyce
     
  7. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2007
    963
    Daytona Beach, Florida
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Troyce, pretty sure Taz was referring to the updated intake manifold gaskets. They should be the current part number at any Ferrari parts vender. Replaced mine last November with 15k miles on the car and fixed with new plugs it is a different animal.
    There is an excellent independent in Eustis, Maranello Autosports, should you need.
    Bill
    FL
     
  8. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I just replaced mine. I'm not so convinced they're much improved, but the newest gaskets are black rather than green with a red silicone bead. 324050 is the current part # according to Ricambi.

    FWIW, I also did the SRI hoses and have mixed feelings.
     
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,166
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Chris- The latest ones have a metal center and rubber like material over that. The old ones were paper gasket material and quickly broke down. The break down was exacerbated by the light torque on the fasteners, which tended to vibrate loose, helped by the paper gaskets dissolving.
     
  10. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Hi Taz,

    Perhaps the rubber and metal gasket is part # 225462? That has been superseded, and the gasket I received was a black treated paper and did not feel like it had metal inside. Although the green and silicone bead original gaskets cannot be reused and are NLA, it seemed a lateral move to the newest part.
     
  11. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    Thanks much, Bill. ". . . fixed with new plugs . . " Spark plugs? Guessing would that have helped because the intake leak would have affected the spark plugs?

    I have just ordered two of the gaskets from Ricambi.

    Does this look like the right coolant hose kit? -
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 575 SiliconeCooling Hose Kit - AW5550000 | eBay

    Thanks, Bill, All!

    ~Troyce
     
  12. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    Thanks for that part number, gaskets should be on the way soon.

    ~Troyce
     
  13. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    Thanks, Taz. The ones I'm getting from Ricambi appear to be an asbestos (or whatever replaces same these days) material with metal ring inserts surrounding the intake holes. That would be similar to gaskets used on many of the motorcycles on which I've worked.

    ~Troyce
     
  14. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2007
    963
    Daytona Beach, Florida
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Anytime! Yes plugs was a reference to spark plugs. Prior to replacing the intake gaskets I made sure everything else was in order, pulled MAF's and cleaned, pulled throttle bodies and cleaned, and replaced the spark plugs. The book calls for new plugs on the 575 @ 15,000 miles which I felt was likely overkill. Figured since the throttle bodies were off I'd put a set in. Everything that I cleaned was not real dirty and the old plugs did not look bad. She still needed the intake gaskets which Bruce @ Maranello Autosports handled.
    I had thought the car ran pretty good since purchase in 2010 until the vacuum leak came into play. Once back from Bruce, it was simply a noticeably stronger car.
    I'm certain the correct air mixture had the most to do with it but suspicious the new plugs were a help too.

    Sent you a PM with some details on SRI hoses as forum won't allow me to post the link.
    The silicone hose link you posted is someone newer to the game. Maybe someone else can comment on their quality.
    Bill
    FL
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,166
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Bill- The new iridium plugs do seem to help.

    Sounds like the intake manifold gaskets are on their third iteration. Hopefully not just because it was the lowest bidder. At least Ferrari is not abandoning our V12s. Except for wheels.
     
  16. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Or blow by hoses.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,098
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    That is in large part because of Roger Penske. Ferrari's traditional business model was to hand off to Maranello Concessionaires the exclusive rights to produce all parts more than 2 or so generations of cars back. Ferrari would hand over all existing stocks of parts and drawings, designs etc. You order at the dealer, the dealer orders at FNA, FNA orders at Ferrari Spa and Ferrari Spa ordered at MC. The parts followed the reverse path back to you. Roger Penske bought Maranello Concessionaires a number of years ago and over time his bean counters decided that was not profitable enough and to a great degree dropped it. Parts for many models are now harder to get as a result and more are being provided via aftermarket suppliers as a result. The parts we can get are getting very pricey and coachwork parts for cars not all that old are NLA.

    The 456, 550 etc have entered that point.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,166
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Maranello Classic Parts is what remains of the parts department of Maranello Concessionaires after Penske split it into separate profit centers, but their parts guru just retired, so not the same thing. I still order some parts from them that Daniel cannot get.
     
  19. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    If you're considering those new hoses, make sure they're lined, or you get a statement from the supplier that they're compatible with glycol based coolant.

    Pure silicone hoses are normally impervious to most engine fluids and conditions, cold, heat, oil, hydraulic fluid, but their Achilles heel is engine coolant :(

    Also make sure you get wider clamps than the usual 1/2" worm type radiator clamps, and/or get the type that have rolled edges, as silicone is so soft that normal clamps can easily cut through a hose if overtightened.
     
  20. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    #20 troyce, May 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yesterday, before reading this, I changed out the thermostat. Here is what I have for the two large hoses to the radiator. I looked up "Tubi Gomma Torino (I worked in Torino!) MVQ and near as I can tell, it means silicone. I didn't know to check for a lining, but did the usual cursory inspection of the inside and it showed no degradation. Likely the hoses under the intake manifold have not been changed out, but wonder if these are ok. Also, sturdily tightened, the clamps shown did not seem to be squishing the surface of the hose material. I've seen material coming up through the clamp screw slots, and this doesn't seem to be doing that.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,098
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Those hoses are very good quality and no need to replace if they are in good condition but you are assuming all the hoses are the same and the same quality. They are not. Some of the hose used by Ferrari is unmitigated trash and no riding lawn mower company stoops to use such poor quality.


    You are severely overthinking this and ignoring some very good advice.


    For those that revere Montezemolo, this is the sort of thing he did to the company. The bean counters at his behest knew no bounds in the purchase of cheap products to build the cars.
     
  22. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
    Got the PM and replied, thanks, Bill.

    Will do as Terry recommended about getting further info on the eBay hoses before diving in either way.

    Another forum recommended replacement of all the accessible temp sensors while the manifold is off, so I'll do that too.

    ~T
     
  23. troyce

    troyce Karting

    Jul 19, 2014
    133
    East Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Troyce Walls
     
  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,992
    socal
    Not enough thought is given to clamps! My personal fav is the Gates powergrip. I have never found anything better. I use them everywhere I can except on race cars where more frequent on/off of hoses happens.
     
  25. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Carl, your exception is the only reason I haven't tried those hoses, otherwise I think they're a great idea.

    Curious if Gates has any recommendations, or special tooling for getting them off, without risking slitting the hose too?
     

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