Red Bull and China? *Spoilers* | FerrariChat

Red Bull and China? *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Apr 11, 2011.

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  1. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    doubt it.

    Drivers only use KERS during acceleration (and even then, only briefly), not to increase their top speed.

    I doubt it'll make much difference.
     
  2. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    First off.. I thought they could buy a KERS system in from whoever wishes to sell them one.

    Secondly... Thankfully they have got a chink in there armour.

    In the race I was amazed at the depth of strength that car has, if they were carrying there KERS system round just as ballast. The raw basic pace that car has is awesome.

    Mclaren seem to be the only ones any where near it, whilst some other cars show flashes of speed no one seems to be anything like consistant enough, and RB at the min appear to be able to take up a notch if there getting closed down.

    For me RB have taken last years car and sorted everything out that was remotely wrong with it, and sorted it, apart from the KERS.
     
  3. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    +1 and no shock they are the strongest marginally(RB). I expected Ferrari to have a similar experience but not yet.

    Mclaren are the biggest story as they went from zero to hero in 2 weeks. They just might be able to nip RB this time with any small error on Webbo's or Vettel's part.
     
  4. AlexO91

    AlexO91 F1 Rookie

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    I'm not sure about that i think we are going to need to see something similar to turkey last year. The end of last year and so far this year the car seems bullet proof. Them only exception was webbers KERS lasr race but it still didn't do him any harm.
     
  5. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    As I think we saw yesterday RB only really needs KERS at the start. Depending on the cause getting it to function then shouldn't be too much of an issue.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Personally I still recon that Mclaren where running heavy fuel loads in testing. Brundle commented that the car wouldn't brake, turn in, change direction, exit and accelerate properly. All points to running heavy fuel IMO.

    No doubt they certainly had some issues, but finding 2-3 seconds in 2 weeks is neigh on impossible in F1.
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    RB carries so much speed through the corners it won't make a huge difference to their top speed. It's the teams who have somewhat poor exit speed which it really makes a difference for.
     
  8. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

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    Yea it does and they use a longer top gear for it. So if either DRS or KERS don't work, it's a double whammy since in addition to not having the extra (equivalent, DRS) they also also have longer gear than they need.

    Where'd you get 2-3 seconds from? Testing times are nearly useless just like friday practice times. They got about a second from the current exhaust according to Whitmarsh. They went from a terrible exhaust system to one that works adequately. Considering how critical this part of the car is these days, it doesn't seem far fetched when a team like McLaren are so good at simulation.

    No team would be foolish enough to not run their race exhaust (one that isn't even remotely similar to what was tested) at all in testing. Especially a team like McLaren which is ocd about data acquisition. Plus, the exhaust they've been using isn't even carbon fiber since they didn't have enough time. Too much for sandbagging.
     
  9. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sorry Bas I agree with this ^
     
  10. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    McLaren's success with simulation is not stellar. It seems that every car that comes out of the computer needs a lot of "adjustment".
     
  11. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well yes but it is a awesome set up they have, one hell of a powerful computer.

    The exhaust system was the main problem once solved copied whatever it transformed the potential of ze car.
     
  12. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

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    I think they're the best at it. We've seen a few times where they've ditched friday's work and had Gary Paffett jump in the sim overnight and come up with a pretty good setup for P3. At the end of the day simulation is only a baseline and the simulations are only as good as the models they're based on; which is why we've seen McLaren (and other teams now too) take so much effort to setup those pitot arrays. I've heard Martin talk about their simulation and you can tell how confident they are in it. And with good reason, just look at what they've done here.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm thinking more of the initial design. At this point it works best as a set up aid less well as a design tool.
    Having said that, McLaren is the best at it and its the way of the future.
     
  14. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    There seems to be a misunderstanding of how KERS helps.
    Just like the most important corner on a track is the one before the longest straight KERS aids in getting that extra momentum which the car carries down that straight the entire time.
    Its been said that the RBR does not need it since their exit speed is high to begin with.

    Hopefully Ferrari will have its new bag of tricks for China to make a more competitive race.
     
  15. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #16 kraftwerk, Apr 11, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
    Yes thats the way I see it, also I think they can use it to defend a position, unlike DRS.

    Used both together DRS and KERS is probably the most effective way to pass IMO.

    The RB front wing bend is probably what gives them Wings/edge.
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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  17. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #18 kraftwerk, Apr 11, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
    Yes Dave>:D
     
  18. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

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    One last point to add on simulation is that it also increases operational efficiency. Everything that gets to the wind tunnel first goes through simulation. It's important these days since wind tunnel resources are restricted. Looking back at the last few years McLaren have been very good at development and look at this car. Although conceptually not brand new, it is very different from last year's which was pretty much to 09. A very new car is nearly keeping up with the Red Bull which is two evolutions old, and leaving Ferrari's behind as well. All this without any singular talent like Adrian Newey.

    How KERS translates to lap time through acceleration isn't complicated. It is extra 60kW = 80hp.
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    With friends like you...


    :D
     
  20. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yer me bezzy mate :)
     
  21. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Translation please.
     
  22. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    YOU ARE MY BEST FRIEND, no longer ...:D
     
  23. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    One thing does bother me about the way the KERS system charges. Or is shown to charge.
    When following SPEEDs bar graphic one can see the charge level going down at the exit leading to the longest straight for example. Then once the bar is black (used up) and as the car is still acceleration and needs all of the engines power, blip, in an instant the system shows to be fully charged.
    Accelerating down the track there is no energy to be spared charging a KERS system.
    Something is wrong.
     
  24. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

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    Nothing wrong. The amount of KERS energy that can be used in a lap is limited. Once the car crosses the start line, it get's updated. The system itself is capable of delivering more energy than the limit per lap - hence why it goes back to instantly full. If you watch the KERS graphic round a lap, you will see that it always go down, but never does it go up until the car passes the start line. However, the KERS system is recharging every time the driver brakes.
     

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