Red Bull F1

You'll need to figure out the bit that went over your head first, genius.

Both clearly inferior to the mighty Bottas and Kovalainen

 

I heard RB/Max tried to get Mazepin.

 

So Senna gets 1 good teammate and he's had a tough road. Schumacher gets 1 tough teammate and he's had it easy.

I won't put Brundle, Jos Verstpapen, or Irvine on a list of great drivers. But who cares. Schumacher absolutely obliterated them. Barrichello and Massa were both good drivers and they both got wrecked too. Ferrari did it right, the competition was against other teams and not internal.

If Hamilton had a good teammate in 2017 and 2018, he very possibly would not have won the WDC those seasons. Bottas being a hired #2 who is okay but not great really helped in those seasons. Kudo's to Mercedes.

 

Looking back over the last 60 years F! has had some outstanding drivers and they dont crop up very often, some of those great drivers didnt reach their potential as they tragically lost their lives. Cevert, Rindt, Peterson spring to mind.

when you talk about greats over 60 years, for me i mean..... Clark, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton & Verstappen. We all have our preferred driver and judge on personal opinion who would rank in the top 10 of all time greats but one thing that stands out is that in the vast majority of cases it was the team principal that recognized the talent in the first place, nurtured it and built a car for & around them, any subsequent team mate was second in line for how the race car of the time was developed for the No 1.

Barrichello was a perfect example of how he had to adapt his style and preference to match Schumacher, that fact that he did achieve parity but not favouritism within the team was praiseworthy.

 

Lets not forget Jenson Button either, who barely won the title with the supposedly terrible Barrichello as his teammate on his heels despite a very unlucky campaign and also under massive pressure in the form of a 4 race contract for the entirety of the season.

If Barrichello was as bad as people say he was, Button should've absolutely slaughtered him. But he didn't. Button barely beat Barrichello yet Button did very well against Lewis (Given the latters supposed status/elevation). So my question to the believers...what is it? Was Rubens better than given credit for? Or Lewis not as good as they want us to believe? Can't have it both ways as the provided arguments cancel each other out.

 

When I look at the list of F1 champions, Button would be in the bottom half of driver rankings IMO. It's not to say he isn't a good driver, he just isn't anywhere close to Schumacher, Verstappen, or Senna. Like you said, he barely beat Barichello in 2009. Despite everything against Rubens, he was still the better driver at Brawn in the second half of that season. Lewis didn't exactly smash Button either, in fact we all know he lost to him in 2011.

To me it's evident that Lewis is nowhere near the greatest ever, but he's still an extremely high level driver.

 

Schumacher should have trumped them. It is known his contract had clauses to win over his team mates according to Eddie Jordan.

 

Schumi had lesser team mates guys, no need to go into a deep analysis. It is what it is.

 

When you are contractually granted no competition in a team, claiming a status is comedic. MS greatness is by design in those cases/years. I am an MS fan but not blind to the situation as a result of limitations that favored him.

 

We're not going into a deep analysis, we're arguing your idiotic statements using facts.

The handful of times Michael was behind his teammates and the switcheroo happened, yes it did but lets not pretend it was something that happened all the time?

For Lewis it was the same, for Alonso, Vettel, hell even Verstappen had it happen.

 

I didn't hear any arguments from you to convince me that the Schumacher had more top notch team mates than Sir Lewis Lewis Hamilton.
Your argument about Schumacher's clause is comical. The whole meaning of the clause is his team mate should not challenge or place above him. This is the preset for the race. That's why Eddie J said it takes away from his legacy.

 

BUTTON - 2009 6 wins, 2x 3rd, 3 x 5th, 1 x Retired. 4 x poles WDC Champion
BARRICHELLO - 2 wins, 3 x 2nd, 1x 3rd, 2 x 4th, 2 x 5th 1x Retired. 1 x Pole Overall - 3rd WDC

mmm comprehensively beat him.

 

12 points in it. Barrichello was on a 4 race contract putting significant pressure on him (any mistakes, failure to comply etc = sacking). Barrichello outscored Button 2nd half easily. Barrichello suffered more unreliability, totally out of his control.

 

KTU, you wouldn't know a argument if it shat on your head.

 

You're probably right. But I do know Schumacher and Max had some trash team mates.

 

He still beat easily beat him with one (1) retirement each!

Didnt easily outscore him either

2009 not corrected for mal GP

!st Half - Button 69 Barrichello 43 points
2nd half - Button 31 points, Barrichello 34 points.......

 

Lewis may have the best list of top teammates, at least that I can think of, but he's still had some trash teammates too. He also enjoyed Bottas on a #2 contract that meant he was forced to sacrifice for Lewis. He wasn't even allowed to go on an alternative tire strategy to Lewis.

Claiming Rubens had a contract that said he could not finish ahead of Michael is absolutely bottom feeding nonsense. It happened plenty of times and Rubens never just got out of the way. They raced each other numerous times as teammates. Nobody will deny Michael was #1 and got preference, but Rubens was absolutely allowed to finish ahead of Michael.

 

Mika Salo driving for an injured Schumacher at the 99 GermanGP rings a bell.

 

?

 

Well, he was told to slow down by Brawn so Rubens could pass him. Ferrari wins the race P1 and P2 with Salo coming in 2nd. Maybe Rubens had a "bad day at the office."
I mean if Salo can beat Rubens, then......

 

You mean Eddie Irvine? Rubens didn't drive for Ferrari until 2000. Irvine got promoted to #1 as he was in a championship battle with Hakkinen and HH Frenzen so team orders had their part to give him the best chance.

 

That's right, you are correct. It was Irvine. My bad.

 

2nd half not corrected for Hungary disappearing spring in quali, either

The point is, if Rubens was as rubbish as people claim, Button should've absolutely dominated him given that he was more than a match for Lewis.

 

Whats the flying spring got to do with it!!

So we can agree he didnt ........easily outscore him.

Barrichello was a excellent driver and worthy of a WDC, it wasnt to be unfortunately.

 

a mechanical failure outside of his control

yes that is the point. But some people think Barrichello was utterly useless because he was demolished by Michael, yet when Barrichello gave a worthy fight to Button, who is praised for being a superb teammate to Hamilton...the statements contradict each other.