Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016 By Dieter Rencken and Lawrence Barretto Sunday, September 6th 2015, 19:27 GMT Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com The Red Bull Formula 1 team will not run Renault engines next season, AUTOSPORT understands. Red Bull and Renault's relationship has become fractious during the last two seasons following a string of reliability and performance problems. Red Bull has a contract with Renault that runs until the end of 2016, but AUTOSPORT sources are adamant the relationship will not continue next year. Why Renault has come unstuck again It is understood Red Bull has issued a document requesting a termination of the partnership that will be accepted by Renault. This comes after Daniel Ricciardo and Daniil Kvyat took their seventh engines of the season for this weekend's Italian Grand Prix, resulting in big grid penalties. It also leaves Red Bull with Mercedes and Ferrari as the only realistic options for power next season. Renault's future in Formula 1 has been the subject of speculation this season. It is understood that it has ruled out being an engine supplier to customer teams next year, which has implications for its second outfit Toro Rosso. That leaves Renault with two options: buy Lotus, where a deal is poised to be agreed, or leave F1 altogether, which a source suggests remains a possibility.
There's been another meeting between Marchionne, Arrivabene, Marko and Horner at Monza it seems. Would be great to see next year's Toro Rosso with Ferrari engines and the two youngsters beating Horner's Red Bulls.
Bernie is going to foster Renault's return with Lotus purchase. Marko may hedge with Ferrari power in Toro Rosso, since Horner probably is vetoing internally to keep Merc power in Red Bull only. Bernie won't allow more teams to fail, and Marko will want both teams to be competitive until someone makes him an offer for Toro Rosso that he can't refuse.
If, the time to order new engines for next season has indeed passed (as Mercedes has stated), then it has to be true for the other power unit producers as well. Then the only way for the Cans to have an engine supplier for next season would be to convince another team to switch engines with them. With Lotus being in a very desperate situation right now I could see them making some sort of deal with Red Bull. Of course if Renualt get to Lotus first, they may choose to keep Mercedes power for next season just to screw Red Bull.
Blunt talk from Renault about Red Bull. I wonder, if Red Bull will leave.... Renault confirms it is renegotiating F1 deal with Red Bull - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com Renault confirms it is renegotiating F1 deal with Red Bull By Jim Holder and Ian Parkes Tuesday, September 15th 2015, 16:39 GMT Renault has confirmed it is renegotiating its contract with Red Bull after making clear it is no longer willing to be an engine supplier, and questioning the Formula 1 team's sportsmanship. The French car manufacturer is currently involved in detailed negotiations with Lotus with regard to taking a majority stake in the team, and also with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone over whether it will be granted historical status, which in turn will ensure it receives a greater share of future revenues. CEO Carlos Ghosn, however, has confirmed for the first time the company's days of being an engine supplier are over. Speaking at the Frankfurt Motor Show, Ghosn said: "We said very clearly, it's finished. "We already alerted the Formula 1 authorities [saying] that 'Don't count on us as a provider of an engine. It's over'. "We will honour our contracts, no problem, but the occasion of Renault as a developer and supplier of engines stops." Renault has deals in place with Red Bull and Toro Rosso through to the end of 2016, with the former previously granted number one status. Red Bull, however, is understood to have requested a termination of the deal a year early, and is now in the throes of trying to line up Ferrari engines from 2016 after Mercedes decided against supplying one of its main rivals. "I think we are today renegotiating the contracts, so it's too early to say what's going to be the conclusion of the contract," added Ghosn. The 61-year-old Brazilian, however, has expressed displeasure at the criticism Renault has been subjected to by Red Bull over the past 18 months after four years of powering the team to the constructors' and drivers' titles from 2010-13. Renault has struggled to adapt to the V6 turbo-powered era, resulting in strong words from the likes of Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz and team principal Christian Horner. Ghosn, RenaultAn unhappy Ghosn said: "Unfortunately when we were winning championships the Renault name was never mentioned. It was the team that was winning.
 "So we started to feel the return on this investment was very weak. "It was intensified by the fact that when the technology changed and we moved from the V8 engine to the present technology, some of the teams using our engine did not fare well, and the reasons for which they are not performing became the engine. "So you are in the game that when you perform very well you are never mentioned, and when there is a problem with the team you are the first guy to be pointed [at]. "Are the criticisms fair or unfair? I don't think it's a question of being fair or unfair. "It's a sport. You can't just say 'I lost, but my team-mate was really...' you know? "I think it's a question of sportsmanship. We are expecting, that when we are in a sport working with other people, we win together and we lose together."
Marko ? But Marko isn't the owner of RB and TR. Aren't you confusing him with Mateschitz, the energy drink industrialist?
That seems to reflect the atmosphere within the partnership. When RB won, it's because of its superior Newey chassis, the engine supplier was hardly mentioned in the success. Now, RB loses and it's Renault that is to blame. A bit of a one way street, really ...
? I thought I read Ferrari (Arrivabene?) said they'd be happy to supply 'em both. (?) But I could have dreamt it too. No idea what Cossie are up to these days - Do they have the engineering teams in place to do it? Cheers, Ian
As far as I know, Ferrari doesn't give its latest engines to customer teams. Sauber is always receiving engines that are one step behind in development, and Manor gets 2014 engines. Manor is discretly looking for another source. So, I can understand why Red Bull isn't so enthusiastic about the offer.
Better than nothing!...... Seriously, yeah, we know Manor are talking with Merc. Good for them. But, I'm pretty sure Sauber turned down the offer of the latest spec Ferrari PU prior to Silverstone (?) - It was "offered", but they chose to delay putting it in. No doubt Ferrari will keep the "best" for themselves, but IMO the way these things are built (& the rules of course!) means there's not going to be a lot of difference between 'em as they come off the dyno; I'd guess 10, maybe 20hp between the "best" & the "worst". Cheers, Ian
That's not the point. The fact is that a customer engine from Ferrari or Mercedes will never be allowed to match a factory unit, putting any private team at a disadvantage. Having lost its status of "factory team" with Renault, Red Bull may never be in a position to challenge for the top if it becomes a customer of Mercedes or Ferrari. What F1 needs is an independent engine supplier, one that is not linked to a work team. It's a great pity that Cosworth isn't in the business anymore.
Red Bull will be a challenger next year for the title. What F1 needs is greater scope for creativity, not less. In an F1 era hallmarked by the burgeoning list of disastrous decisions, moving to independently supplied PU's would catapult to the top of that list.
Sauber wants upgraded Ferrari engine before end of season Sauber wants upgraded Ferrari engine before end of season - Formula 1 News Mercedes customers await news on upgraded F1 engine Mercedes customers await news on upgraded F1 engine - Formula 1 News Is it how Red Bull will be treated? No wonder Mateschitz has second thought about staying in F1.
+1 But it won't happen. Cost of development is far too high. F1 needs to simplyfy the PU rules. A simpler (NA) engine, a bolt on (k)ERS unit. When a multi billion corporation is unable to figure out how to make the engine function, and is as much as 240bhp down(!) at parts...something is seriously wrong. Cosworth or someone will likely be interested when engines are normal and so will teams.
Absolutely right. The present engine rules are just a blind alley; they damage F1 more than anything. The FIA should bring back some simplicity in engine rules and allow more technical freedom. The token system and the limit in the number of engines are just unecessary to the sport.
Maybe we will see a Honda in the back of the Red Bull - perhaps they know something we don't.. Couldn't be anymore disastrous John
Bring back the nice, simple V8's that were relatively cheap to produce, simple to work on, and forget KERS and all that rubbish. The teams will be cheaper to run, the engine rules could still be 'tokened' if they really want to keep pissing fans off, and the money saved could allow extra testing days and, more importantly, allow new talent to test in relevant machinery before being unleashed in actual races. They could even let Pirelli test tyres a little thus allowing them to get their tyres right!
Imagine the embarrassment to Renault if red bull came out and said they want a better engine, and then pick Honda! Hahahaha, but April 1st is long gone this year I'm not so sure customer engines from Ferrari would be such a challenge for red bull, their chassis was always better than anyone else's, and remember in their winning years, the Renault PU was rarely considered a match for the others, maybe losing 20hp to the factory teams won't phase them and allow them to still challenge towards the front. Merc won't be concerned, but I imagine Ferrari would have to have a special red 'destruct' button available!
Return to mechanical brakes, remove the ERS from the rear wheels. As far as horsepower, this new format is about heat management, the past trend was the team with the smallest package had the winning aero. Now, if you aren't managing heat, you are at lower efficiency, with lower efficiency comes less power per KG, with a fixed fuel load, and fuel flow cap, this is less power. Mercedes have build a much bigger package, that is much better at managing the temperatures. While I would prefer NA engines, the future will be with turbocharged systems, emission and fuel economy regulations is going to drive the market to Turbocharged cars. F1 becomes a dinosaur if it doesn't follow. Turbocharged, higher fuel flow rate, high fuel allowance, perhaps bring back refueling. F1 has little real choice to change the format until the timetable runs out. Hopefully they can get something better on the next round. The problem with the token system, and frozen motors, is teams cannot get a different version of an engine package to taylor the engine to their car design. This is why Mclaren dumped Merc as fast as they could. This is also why Red Bull is dropping Renault, there were somewhat veiled statements that Renault compromised for other teams. Under this format, unless your team builds its own engines or has an exclusive supply, you aren't playing with a full deck. Its no coincidence that Ferrari and Mercedes 1&2. Renault with its own team, may be able to work its way to #3 in short order.
In an ideal world, everything is possible. But here, you are talking about F1 and lots of vested interests that won't allow common sense to prevail.
Renault leaving could be just the kick in the pants that F1 needs to return to a simpler power formula. I also wonder whether Merc and/or Ferrari have the capacity, or desire, to pick up the extra demand caused by Renault's departure. Who among them wants to provide a customer PU to Red Bull? Merc have already said no. Does Ferrari want to risk being beaten by a PU customer...heads would roll in Maranello. I think Honda has an exclusive arrangement with McLaren. A big problem created by making PUs so complicated, cutting edge and expensive is that it has driven the Cosworths, Judds and other race engine makers away or out of business. This situation wherein certain teams are also the PU suppliers to other teams is a dubious situation. Simplify the engine formula, invite independent engine makers back, and prohibit a team that makes its own engines from also selling them to other teams.
