McLaren have stated theirs will be ready for China The crux of F1's latest murky matter centres on the low ride-height the two Bulls are able to run in qualifying with Whitmarsh seemingly believing that the team - and possibly others - are then able to adjust the height of their cars despite them being quarantined in parc ferme for the race that follows. Challenged to explain why McLaren have been over half a second slower than the Red Bulls in qualifying in both Bahrain and Australia, Whitmarsh countered: "I think there's some evidence that there are ride-high control systems that some people would think are not permissible. As you can imagine, we are now working hard on [introducing] such systems. The original ruling was that such systems were not allowed but we now have to get those systems as quickly as possible - hopefully by China." Asked to identify the teams under suspicion, a guarded Whitmarsh commented: "It looks like Red Bull, and some other cars, are able to run lower in qualifying that you would expect if they were going to fill the car with fuel afterwards." However, even before Whitmarsh voiced his suspicions, the set-up of the Red Bulls had been subject to plenty of gossip in the Melbourne paddock. In his Friday night blog, James Allen reported that, while 'Ferrari's system is manual and very obvious', 'There have been suggestions that Red Bull has a more sophisticated system, which allows the car to run low in qualifying trim but then raises itself up when the 160 kilos of fuel are loaded in and lowers itself again as the fuel burns off. The key to that is making it legal. 'Other teams are scratching their heads about how Red Bull might have achieved that, but one suggestion is that they may be exploiting the regulation that allows teams to re-gas pressurize the dampers between qualifying and the race. If this is the case then they would get the benefit of running the car low in qualifying and then raise it up when the fuel is added. Hence their stunning qualifying form.'
I like how Red Bull continues to deny they have such a system and Christian Horner says that if Mclaren show up in China with one, Red Bull will protest...
Interesting. The Red Bull is clearly the quickest car, and the Ferrari clearly the 2nd quickest. McLaren is the 3rd quickest. If McLaren say Red Bull and Ferrari have this system, I wonder how much additional speed the McLarens will pick up once they implement it? And I wonder how much more speed Ferrari will get with the F-vent once they get that? Could be an exciting 2nd half of the year.
Clearly the faster you are down the straight, the quicker your lap time will be. That being said, by itself, I doubt the f-vent can reduce lap times by more than a tenth or two. To me, the advantage seems to be in overtaking and preventing overtaking. I'd be more interested in the adjustable ride height deal that the f-vent personally. Mark
that's what i'm really excited about...this arms race that's heating up very quickly...should make this season's unfolding fairly dramatic..add in a bit of FIA 'tweaking' here and there, and perhaps a few punches thrown between a few teammates...should be stupendous!!!
So how exactly is a system that's illegal actually legal? These teams are openly saying they are developing a system that is against the rules and they have full intentions of using them. lol
So they are allowed to "re-pressurize" the shocks ? If so this should have been thought of Years ago. No Christmas Bonus for the suspension engineer(s).
By stating it publicly, it puts pressure on FOM/FIA to make a decision quickly. Either it's legal or illegal. It's all public posturing....
+1 It isn't however anything to do with FOM - The Evil Pygmy stays *well* clear of these cases..... He used to sometimes pull Mad Max's strings, but I don't believe he ever got too involved with Charlie's domain...... I'm guessing Charlie will issue a "clarification" before Europe at the latest. Cheers, Ian
Cars were in qualifying on race fuel. They never ran with more than a stint. Before parc ferme conditions cars were in qualy on low tanks and ride height was adjusted post qualifying
I wish they would just throw open the doors to some of these technologies rather than stifle them. Can you imagine what active suspensions would be like today had they not been banned in the 90's? They always talk about limiting costs, but teams are going to spend whatever they can however possible. I'd much rather see things like this developed than building engines specifically to comply with season limits.
The regulations are starting to get a bit silly, aren't they? F-1 is expensive. When costs were not limited, it was a lot more fun, too.
So you're suggesting that if McLaren feel another car is using an illegal device (i.e. the other team is cheating) they should shut up and say nothing about it? I don't see the logic.
And active suspension would probably have some real world benefit to road cars - unlike the F-vent and gas-cooling-shock suspension and double diffusers.
Not sure I would necessarily agree with you that Ferrari is "clearly" second. Sure they were strong in Bahrain, but not so much in Australia and Malaysia where they seemed to get in each other's way a lot. Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere or not. But this is now officially banned. "Formula 1 governing body the FIA has faxed all teams, informing them that any type of system which modifies a car's ride height levels whilst in action on-track would be illegal. Suspicions have been aroused in some teams over the likes of Red Bull, whose RB6 is rumoured to contain a device which generates more downforce by lowering the car in qualifying. With cars carrying full fuel tanks this year in order to cater for the ban on in-race refuelling, competitors would gain a simple yet effective aerodynamic advantage should their car be able to run closer to the ground and therefore generate more downforce whilst running light in qualifying sessions. However, although the rumours are no more than that, an FIA spokesperson has confirmed to Autosport that any ride height-changing part (such as the use of pressure-operated components, as mentioned in the paddock at Sepang last weekend) would not be allowed under the current sporting regulations "Any system device or procedure, the purpose and/or effect of which is to change the setup of the suspension while the car is under Parc Fermé conditions, will be deemed to contravene article 34.5 of the sporting regulations," reads the FIA message received by Autosport."
Looks like it's going to get a lot more interesting. RBR has vehemently denied they have any such system, but most seem to think they are being coy about what they have. Do they take it off and give up a big advantage? Push the issue and face penalties? Call McLarens bluff? I also wonder who else has something... supposedly Ferrari does, but Whitmarsh mentioned others - I wonder who else has it in addition? As for Ferrari, I think if you look at qualifying times, plus their lap times during the race, the Ferrari is definitely the 2nd fastest car behind the RBR. I saw some graphs on another side of lap times and the Ferrari was solidly in 2nd place. They've had back luck for sure w/Alonso @ Sepang and also @ Australia, and still lead the WDC and WCC.
I don't think they have a ride height lowering system I think they have a system that ensures the ride height stays the same as the fuel is burned off. Think about it, they have to carry a lot of fuel which weighs a lot which means the car is going to be non-optimum height for most of the race as of course it has to start at the correct ride height. Thus they have a system that lowers the car as the fuel is burnt, keeping their car optimum. Their qualifying performances are simply because of Newey and the Renault engine is now the best ... note how Renault are now also fast again. Pete
Christian Horner has made it crystal clear that if Mclaren show up in China with such a system, Red Bull will protest. That says to me that Mclaren's belief that Red Bull has such a system is erroneous in some fundamental way. The Red Bulls have been inspected several times by the scrutineers and cleared each time. Horner has said "they will have a difficult time finding such a system, because it isn't there". I'm betting on Red Bull "pulling an F-duct" and having a clever, yet totally legal way to achieve the ride height changes.
This is what I was thinking. It would make a whole lot more sense to me to have a system that assures the car stays within certain ranges orf ride height based on weight. How it's done, who knows, but I like the engineering it took to get there. Mark
