Red light and hidden speed cameras

It's ridiculous and ludacrous. Do governments actually think they we believe them when the say they want us safe? It's all money money money.

 

I'm sorry to hear that.

We've had it for about a year already. The next headlines (when it's running) will be how they catch a guy doing 100mph in a 30 zone, and everyone is supposed to nod in agreement that it's a good thing. They cite these rare examples to paper over the people getting pick-pocketed for 38 in a 30.

It's all just sickening.

 

Speeding cameras are total B.S., pure money machine with near zero statistical (or logical) basis for making us “safer.” They simply can not evaluate the circumstances and deem if the conditions, vehicle, and driver permitted the speed.

I don’t know that I agree with privatization, and I never agree with large revenue incentives, but sometimes I wonder about red light cameras. I used to be vehemently against them, but there is one light btw work and my house where people run it every time it changes, “stretching” the yellow so they can be the last one through. Most of these people start going through the intersection when it is clearly already red, there is no yellow involved, but because it was yellow 3 seconds ago they rationalize to themselves that this practice is alright. It’s not though, it’s total crap and is b.s. for people like me that do stop at the light and watch them do it. I’m not bitter, but I can acknowledge that doing this is asking for a nice T bone. Maybe they deserve that T bone, maybe they don't, but I'm pretty sure the guy innocently coming the other way (90d) doesn't deserve to be put in that situation. Apparently the runners are too dense/selfish to understand this.

And the rear ending is a b.s. argument, typical weak scapegoat that the car mags always like to cite. The problem is not you stopping for a red light, it’s the ***** tailgating you… novel concept that maybe police start enforcing the tailgating and obstruction of traffic laws, or God forbid, tickets for not paying attention to the road… The only good argument I see against red light cameras is when the town makes the yellow shorter, because that is tailored made to either cause accidents or just screw people who are in that zone where you are too close to stop, too far to make it through under yellow. And, I’m not sure that argument out weighs the fact that it is three colors we’re dealing with here.

My bottom line is, if someone hasn't mastered the whole red, yellow, green thing here, he probably deserves a ticket at the very least for being an idiot that would surely die if pure Darwinism still existed. And, if people would just be ethical instead of selfish ******bags we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

The solution: black spray paint in rattle can, tall ladder.
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It seems to me that a traffic camera designed to stop a truly dangerous thing (running red lights) is a valid safety device. A camera designed to give speeding tickets to every shmuck caught going 32 in a 30 zone is a revenue device and should be immediately rendered inoperable by every person within a 4 mile radius.

Birdman

 

i think there was a thread about this some time ago and it linked to another site where some guy fought the sytem and won - after going through hell first...

i think it took place in California and cameras such as these were privatized and the company who made the cameras would get a kick-back for every ticket that was issued... So people were getting tickets for running red lights when they were still yellow... It's unbelievable... Everyone say, "thank you, big government"...

 

NNO, it happened in the community of Poway just outside of San Diego in the Peoples Republic of California. A class action suit was filed and now a claim form must be filled out by those falsely convicted.
http://redlightcases.com/SettlementNoticeandClaim.pdf

Vehicle Code Sec. 21455.6(b) which presently says: "The authorization in Section 21455.5 to use automated enforcement systems does not authorize the use of photo radar for speed enforcement purposes by any jurisdiction."

In 2005 the California legislature may give official permission for fully automated cameras - see SB 466 on the Action page. San Jose claims that their present system is allowed by a loophole in the law - probably because the vans are manned and thus not fully automated. They ticket at 10 mph over the limit. Neither Campbell nor San Jose has red light cameras. See also San Jose's section on the Camera Towns page.
The LAPD is utilizing some speed cameras in the San Fernando Valley, to send out warning tickets (see LA's section on the Cameras Page for more about that). Arizona is full of them. Washington DC has just started a system.

Don't know all the details, but your'e right. Like I have said several times before here, it is all about the pharking dollar. The state is hurting big time and the city of San Diego is going to be filing BK soon.

High tech is defeated by low tech.
Rattle can vigilantes unite.

 

red-light speed cameras i'm glad to see. since their introduction here a few years ago, within a few months the increase in stop-light courtesy was palpable. it's no longer a battle with danger to do a right-turn (aussie) at a busy traffic light as people coming the other way don't tend to floor it when the amber light comes on anymore. it used to be that you'd often get stuck waiting in the middle of an intersection until the cross-traffic was about to go green, and only one car could get through at a time.

the rest can go to hell.

 

While this system has been used poorly/fraudulently in the past (many here in LA received money back and points on their license) I will say this.

I drive through many of the intersections that have the cameras here in LA. In LA we have an unspoken "two car rule" for left hand turns on yellow. I know in Boston there seems to be a single car left hand turn immediately after the light turns green. At least that's what the driver (from Boston) told me after she shot out into the intersection taking the left as cars seemingly rocketed toward us... Now often during rush hour the only thing that ensures these two cars making the left hand turn is the threat of the cameras. I've almost been hit many times as the light has turned yellow, cars coming drive through... I start to make my left and someone (who should be stopping) guns it! I and the person behind me brake hard, swerve and the saving grace is watching the multiple flashing lights as the F*cker get his due as the light has already turned red before he even entered the intersection. Instant Karma! What's even more wonderful is the honking and screams of "Wow. Yea! Got-em!" along with smiles of all who'd witnessed it. The cameras don't mind if you're taking a left.

I often choose to take Santa Monica Blvd and other streets that have these devices because I find traffic often flows better on them during heavy traffic periods. Is it because of the cameras? I tend to think so. Now I don't drive into the red so I don't have anything to worry about. Yes every now and again the light'll turn yellow just before I enter and yes I do worry a bit. But, when in doubt I just get on the brakes.

It's funny how so many on this board will say "than you big government" you don't say that when you head to the Pharmacy to get your drugs or when you go to the meat department to get some steak. I for one am happy someone's got my back. Especially against big business. You're blaming the government for a crooked business. They’re the ones that set up the cameras to go off under yellow not the local government! Why aren’t you screaming about the crooked business!?!? Once it was brought to the attention of the proper authorities they took action and it was fixed. Nothings perfect. Growth is often painful and I've been on the bad end once or twice. But, it's never been anything I couldn't take care of.

You run in the red you should get a ticket.

 

Hey, Don... Here, we use the US dollar... i don't know where Pharking is and, to be quite honest with you and at the risk of seeming ignorant, i've never even heard of 'Pharking'...

 

Pharking is a greek word

http://www.10news.com/news/906487/detail.html

Poway Considers Turning On Red Light Cameras
City Would Have Different Company Run Cameras
POWAY, Calif. -- Controversial red light cameras could soon be snapping pictures of suspected traffic offenders in Poway once again.


Poway officials are considering restarting photo enforcement, despite the fact that a judge has yet to rule in a San Diego case that questions the cameras' legality.

For the past year-and-a-half Poway's red light cameras have been shut off because the city's contract with Lockheed-Martin ran out.


Lockheed-Martin is the same company that operates cameras for San Diego. Lawyers in the San Diego case argue that Lockheed-Martin manipulated the yellow light times and the cameras sensors to generate revenue. They also suggest that the placement of the cameras was also revenue-driven, as opposed to placing cameras in the most dangerous intersections.

But the Poway City Council appears set to distance themselves from the controversy by having a different company run the cameras. AAPAC Technologies would still take a cut from every $271 ticket served, but they would take less than Lockheed-Martin, officials told 10News.

"We are convinced it's a technology that works," Poway senior traffic engineer Mike Robinson told 10News.

Some Poway residents feel it doesn't matter who's running the cameras:

"I do believe it's taking some of our freedom away," resident Jan Ghio said.

Poway City Council is expected to take up the issue on August 28. Poway's red light cameras are located at the following intersections:
Poway Road W/B through Community Road
Poway Road E/B to N/B Pomerado Road

According to the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety, running red lights serves as the cause for some 260,000 accidents a year in America.


******and in a different article*****

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...

"...A breakdown of how money collected from the tickets will be split was unavailable Monday. However, a report prepared for the council by city development services director Niall Fritz said the program is expected to pay for itself, and that Poway will be able to recoup its initial investment."
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/11/16/news/inland/11_15_0420_16_20.txt

 

That's ludi-... ludo-... ridiculous...! So they think AAPAC or whoever, will be honest because they're getting LESS money...? That would be incentive for them to shave yellow light time even MORE than Lockheed Martin...! It just doesn't make sense...


Pharking is Greek...? Is it a Greek letter...? Can i use it in a Scrabble game...? It's got an 18 point face value...

Pharking Kappa Gamma...
Alpha Beta Pharking...
Lambda Pharking Lambda...

 

HEY! I want in on this action! I will start installing traffic light cameras at ALL intersections in San Diego. My companies name is "Pharking TrafficCams Inc."

"...The proposed deal will be discussed at the council meeting set for 7 p.m. in the community meeting room of the Poway Library, 13137 Poway Road. If the agreement is approved, the city would pay Redflex Traffic Systems Inc. $161,000 to install cameras that would snap photos of red-light runners at three local intersections for at least the next three years....
Although the city stands to collect some of the $341 fine involved, traffic safety, not financial gain, is the program's goal, Poway traffic engineer Zoubir Ouadah said." http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/11/16/news/inland/11_15_0420_16_20.txt
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We have had the cameras in Calgary for several years.

The red cameras are roted around the eligible sites so you never know which site is taking pictures. Red light issues have declined in the traffic stats.

The Crown attorney decided that trivial speeding tickets just over the limit would be a bad problem. The Cameras take pictures of speeders but prosecution is declined until you go 15 km over the posted limit. No points are given since the system cannot determine if the car's owner was driving.

I understand that revenue earned from the cameras is split between the City and the police force budget.

 

I've not spent much time in Boston but the same was true in Philadelphia and it annoyed the heck out of me. Oddly, it was not seen frequently in the New York City area or anywhere else I've lived (Miami, Seattle, Atlanta).

Here in Atlanta there is just the opposite annoyance: the light turns green and the first car in the left turn lane stays behind the stop line! (Or, if a green arrow is followed by a full green, the same thing.) If there is no break in the oncoming traffic, no one makes a left on that cycle of the light! I checked the GA Drivers Handbook and there is nothing mentioned that restricts anyone from pulling into the intersection when waiting to make a left; in fact it says specifically that one may do just that.

Considering that most people drive 10-25 MPH over the speed limit on nearly every street, road and highway around here, this timidity is puzzling.

 

Use this. It will come in handy.

http://www.phantomplate.ca/

 

DON'T FALL FOR THEIR TRICK!!!

These cameras, while called "Red Light Cameras" are less about red light runners and more about speeding!!!! 90% of the tickets they give out have to do with speeding. I know, our paper publishes the stats!

And you think it helps red light issues? Think again! People here are now so petrified at the sight of a yellow, they're slamming on their brakes when they SHOULD be going through, resulting in REAR END COLLISIONS! They're just trading one problem for another.

PS: Skip the spray can....try a paint ball gun!

 

How many F-cars have front plates anyway? that solves the problem if you're dumb enough to run a red. Best solution is to not do it.

Art

 

I get several British car magazines, and speed cameras have become fairly common over there. There is no question that they are revenue generating devices over there. And all the mags I've read say that the cameras have made no difference in accident rates. They have only brought about substantial increases in local revenue from speeding tickets.

It seems the same is going to be true here. Instead of those little towns in Upstate NY or down in GA that have a cop sitting behind a billboard with a radar gun pulling people over for 2+ mph over the speed limit, they will simply set up speed cameras. So when you're cruising along at 55 and suddenly the speed limit drops to 25 as you hit one of those little burghs, the camera will snap your photo and a few weeks later you'll get your bill in the mail with a shiny picture of your car with the date, time and speed superimposed over it.

It's all about the money, folks. Safety is not really a consideration. It's only the excuse.

 

I see a perfect situation in development. While all the red light cameras and the speed cameras are in operation, making sure that we are safe, the cops instead of patroling, etc, will now be available to take calls from the cell phone vigilantes.

All the cop cars will now be huddled under the nearest cell tower waiting for the next call. See.... it's a perfect situation for THEM, as they now have multiple automatic revenue streams. The cameras do the work, and while the cameras are at work, the cell phone vigilantes take care of the rest. Next thing you know, they will be offering a cut/reward to cell phone vigilantes if a ticket and conviction is issued.

To make it a more perfect situation, i.e. "STORM", when GPS is mandated for your vehicle, THEY will be able to know your exact where abouts at all times. It seems very similar to wearing an ankle bracelet, just like Martha.

Remember the book, "1984" ?????

 

Excellent post Brian. Yes I fully agree with you, 1984 is where we are headed. Technology can be used both ways---good and bad. Robocops are eventually going to become a reality. With cell phones becoming more and more like laptops, the tech nerds will figure out more ways to intrude upon our privacy. California will again be the first. If there is a law for it, it is in California.
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It is like that here in Aus, it has gotten really bad the entire road safety focus is on "every Km over is a killer".

There are cameras everywhere, except in surburbia where the extra kmh counts. They hide behind trees and bridges, in gullies, at the bottom of hills and i have even seen them hiding in bushes just before speed signs i.e if you are not at the limit as you pass the sign you get booked and they have a very low speed tolerance (people have been booked for doing 3km over thats like 1.5/2 miles)

An example of how bad it has gotten there is an ad showing on tv at the moment it shows a guy swerving in and out of traffic on a busy road doing the speed limit car infront stops he slams on the brakes and stops,then same thing this time he is going like 5km over this time he clips the back of the car bounces into a fence then cleans up a mum and baby on the footpath,message comes up and tells you "every k over is a killer" and then no joke shows the mum dead and crying baby covered in blood, wtf.

Hugely inappropriate and unneeded to start with but it is telling people its fine to drive like a tool (which caused the crash) as long as you dont speed.

 

You make me wanna blow my brains out.....you know that don't you.

 

its not that bad, im still ticket free you just keep an eye on the side of the road and look for cars ahead hitting the brakes its still a pain in the arse though