Now I wonder if these two will get along?
Too bad. I really like Webber and think he deserved a better drive than with Red Bull. Wish he had gone to McLaren; with a reliable car he would have done very well there.
The 2007 RB could be quite a surprise: Newey design, Ferrari power, same tires as everybody else. The package could be better than the McLaren.
Where did you hear that? Did I miss something? If that's the case, who will get Ferrari power? Regardless, that would still make the RBR potentially more competitive than the McLaren.
News from several weeks ago - it was also on one of the racing posts: Ferrari: no change to Red Bull deal Red Bull Racing's plans to switch to Renault power-units next season could be scuppered by resistance from Ferrari over changing the terms of their current customer engine deal. The Milton Keynes-based team have a contract to run Ferrari customer engines until the end of 2007, but autosport.com understands that parent company Red Bull want to move that deal across to their second team Scuderia Toro Rosso, replacing it with Renault. Red Bull have held talks with Ferrari about the situation, and sources claim that there is clear resistance from the Italian manufacturer about the move - especially because it would entail the team swapping over to Ferrari's main championship rival. Ferrari sporting director Jean Todt made it clear on Sunday that he was not supportive of any plans to shift the contract across to Scuderia Toro Rosso. "If we have a contract we normally try to respect our contracts, so we intend everybody to have the same attitude," he said. "Unless there is clear evidence, which would really put us in a position to change something and honestly I don't see it now, we are intending to fulfil our contract. "We will supply them the engine for next year, unless they don't want the engine, but it's not something we are aware of at the moment." Todt confirmed that Red Bull representatives had spoken to him about the situation, but said he had not had a confirmation that they definitely wanted out of the second year of their Ferrari deal. "It's something we have discussed and it's something at the moment we are not going to fulfil their wish, if there is this wish confirmed," he said. "Red Bull is a very big company with a lot of people involved, so let's say the people with whom I dealt with for the contract seemed to be very happy with the agreement." There have been suggestions that Red Bull Racing may try and work their way out of the Ferrari deal for 2007 by claiming the contract is with their parent company Red Bull rather than the team. That would in theory allow them to shift the supply to Toro Rosso without breaking the contract. The more likely scenario is, however, of Red Bull Racing taking Felipe Massa next season in exchange for Ferrari allowing the deal to be swapped. Massa could find himself without a drive in 2007 if Kimi Raikkonen and Michael Schumacher end up alongside each other at Ferrari. The Brazilian is managed by Todt's son Nicolas, and he has had his career overseen by Jean Todt for several years. * * * * Carol
I think this says alot: "It's fantastic to be joining Red Bull Racing," said Webber. "It's clear that the team is very hungry for long-term success, it has a very talented group of personnel and there seems to be a real sense of team spirit and unity. I believe I'm joining the team at exactly the right time for success in the future. "After I left Jaguar Racing at the end of the 2004 season and discovered that Mr. Mateschitz was taking over the team, I said that I felt the team had been placed in very good hands and had an assured future. As a team, it seems to be very realistic and knows the challenge that lies ahead. "I hope to bring good experience to the team and to assist it by being a fast and consistent driver and scoring as many points as possible. "I hope that with Red Bull Racing I can have my best F1 season to date and believe that we can be very, very strong together. I'm looking forward to some great times with David and the rest of the Red Bull Racing team." Coulthard added: "I'm delighted to continue with Red Bull Racing for a third season. I can feel that the team is really beginning to gel as a group. "I'm looking forward to raising the performance of the team and the car and to see Red Bull Racing become a regular points scorer, in with a good shout for achieving podiums and wins." The news mean Austrian Christian Klien will not have a racing seat at Red Bull next year. "I would like to take this opportunity to thank Christian Klien for all his hard efforts for the team over the last two seasons," said team boss Christian Horner. "He will remain a Red Bull Racing driver until the end of the 2006 season, and we will continue to give him all the support that we can during that time." * * * * Carol
Hmm, I wonder where that option is now? Both RBR seats are filled, so we can't swap Massa for the engine deal anymore. Or do they mean he'd join TR? It would be really a bit of a waste to put the Ferrari engine into the Torro Rosso cars.
Andreas, you and I think alike and we've both been saying this for some time-RB will be a good team for reasons you have set forth above.... Great move for Weber IMHO.
i think webber is a very good driver. it's a shame that williams is letting him down this season. i dunno about the red bull move, as its a bit too early to say how the newey-same tires-ferrari engines will gel together. i still think he should have gone to renault. then, there'll be more fun to see a few championship contenders. p/s: slightly off topic, but i think PDR will be racing with Mac next season. altho ron isn't that keen, the rest of the team thinks so. will be interesting of the outcome
HaHa! Two years ago I thought Webber was the real deal. Man, either I was really wrong, or he's busted big time. Andreas, wasn't there a thread about this somewhere? I vaguely remember comments joking about how they may try and pass off the Ferrari engines to Toro Rosso.
Try this - I posted about it on 7.16.06 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113658 Also of interest this morning is that Webber is saying he expects RBR to be in the Top Five next year and that he knew prior to Hockenheim he was headed to RBR. Per earlier post, I think Massa deserves more than a downgrade to Torro Rosso - he's a far better driver than the two current ones. I think he'll pair with Kimi at Ferrari (hoping anyway). Carol
As much as I respect your knowledge of F1 I was always puzzled by your support for Webber. I remember when we were at the go kart event two or three years ago, the instructor made fun of Webber and I thought that was spot on while you disagreed. I have said it before: I haven't seen anything from Webber that would make him special. I said that years ago and to this day not much has changed. He continues to have some great moments, particularly in qualifying but then manages to throw it all away. Granted he also had some bad luck (Monaco this year). I think the RBR will be faster than the Williams so in essence it is an upgrade for him. But I'm also sure at the end of 07 DC will have scored more points than Webber. And I'm no DC fan either. Carol: I agree that Massa deserves better than being downgraded to TR. But not much better. His "performance" in Hungary was laughable. When MS lapped him, Massa should have just pulled over, retire and find a new sport.
well, i can see that ur pretty dissapointed in massa's performance. but this is only his 3rd wet race? furthermore, with that BS tires not up to far the 1st half of the race....didn't help either. but i gotta agree that massa threw away in what could have been his 1st victory.
I still find Webber to be one of the most interesting to watch. He's not a MS, FA, or KR caliber all-around driver. But, in the dry he can be seriously fast, and at least he goes/fights for it til the bitter end. He really has the worst luck though with reliability.
+1, or at least come damn close. The gap btw MS and RB was a lot smaller than that btw MS and FM. Honda had a damn good weekend all in all.
You are right, Webber is nothing special. Just one of this South Hemisphere guys, like Brabham, Hulme, McLaren and a few others, who just get on with the job, don't try to be what they are not, and are honest good drivers. He gives the maximum for any team he is in, don't look for excuses, and works hard to improve his car. Anyone who could score points with a Minardi run by Stoddard can't be that bad! The cars were hopelessly outclassed and Stoddard couldn't afford engine changes between GPs at time! Unlike other F1 'stars', I haven't heard Webber permanently criticising his car, his team or other drivers, for his lack of success at time. He is not a 'prima dona', not prone to hysterics, and he is realistic about himself and the whole F1 situation. What is wrong with that?
I got no qualms about the Aussies, in fact Alan Jones was/is my hero. What's wrong with Webber? Well, he hasn't accomplished anything in F1. Unlike the great guys from down under you name. I agree btw that he is a very nice guy. But so is DC. PS: A friend of mine owns a McLaren MD8F, we're big fans.
In terms of personality and character, I agree that Webber is one of the nicer guys on the grid. However in terms of driving achievement I think Webber has fallen far short of the expectations that everyone has had of him. He is a solid qualifier who disappears during the race.Williams expected him to be another Alan Jones but his on-track results do not measure up. If F1 were composed solely of decent men of solid character, then drivers like Ralf Schumacher would long since have been consigned to the obscurity they so richly deserve...
What expectations has he not met? He's done well in poorly performing cars. He's gotten absolutely wretched cars on the first row. He has never been outshown by his teammate - and is currently thrashing Rosberg, who has been tipped as a future WDC. People expect big results from him while he is in horrible cars. He has never had a top 4 car. He is the most unlucky driver reliability wise, including Kimi.
This is something I've definitely noticed this season. The amount of problems with the Williams' cars is something I've never seen before. I cannot believe something like this is coming from a team with such a successful history. Compared to how JPM was complaining about the FW26 (walrus) back '04, he probably would have been on homicide watch right now if he was with Williams.
