REDLINE WATER WETTER. SAFE??

I will comment that water wetter claims to have the same lubrication properties as coolant. FWIW

 

For a street car I would not run straight water, unless you are participating in a track day or a race where they dont want you to run coolant.

The key mix ratio of distilled water to coolant depends on what you expect it to be the lowest temp the car will see in the winter. The less coolant you can run the better your heat transfer will be. I have seen coolant to water mixes anywhere from 30/70 to 60/40. The key thing when you mix up a batch of coolant is to make sure you mix the coolant and distilled water prior to pouring into the cooling system.

 

Many moons ago when young and stupid, now I'm old and stupid, I filled my automobile cooling system completely with antifreeze. Vehicle overheated before I got to the end of my street. I currently run a 25/75% mixture of coolant to water in my vehicles. I haven't had an issue with freezing as I live in Southern California and the top end (boiling) hasn't been an issue. System is under pressure (15 lb. radiator cap) which raises the boiling point of water anyway.

 

How are you going to see a 10 or 20 degree drop in water temperature? If the thermostat is functioning properly it will open and close accordingly to keep the coolant temperature at the level it's designed to. Obviously there is a "window" of "x" number of degrees where the thermostat operates (opens and closes) but I don't see how you can observe a reduction in temps. unless you have a relatively serious problem with your cooling system (somewhat blocked radiator etc.) so that even when the thermostat is fully open you're still running above normal temperature without Water Wetter. Then you could add Water Wetter and perhaps see a reduction on the coolant temp. guage. Otherwise I would think the only way to see a reduction would be if you're running without a thermostat... just a restrictor plate or whatever.

 

uhhh, one time when i was young and stupid (17 to be exact) i filled my radiator with the only fluid that was available...that was bad.

seriously, i live in northern cal, and have just been running distilled water with a can of water wetter. is that ok, or should i be running antifreeze, and if so what is the purpose (anti-corrosion?)

 

Water Wetter is commonly used in Formula car engines in conjunction with ~4 to 5 liters of distilled water. I know it is commonly used in Formula Ford, Formula 3 and other series as well. I don't know for road cars though as water alone probably isn't used as a coolant.

A restriction like a nozzle would increase velocity and decrease pressure at subsonic speeds, a diffuser does the opposite. I think this is what you mean, I'm not trying to be rude, sorry. Regardless, a bit off topic by me.

 

You obviously misread his post!

 

WW is a suitable lubricant and anti corrosive.

True too. There is no real one size fits all concentration. If your car has any signs of a marginal cooling system have a look at the freezing charts. They are usually on the bottle, go by that.

 

In our area (I live in CO CO County) we really dont need antifreeze for protection in winter. For the 3 or 4 days a year we get below freezing if the car is in an attached garage it wont get that cold. Many cars though need it for another reason (and I am not about to start answering which ones) and that is to prevent the heater core from freezing if the A/C is going full blast. I would run at least a 15 or 20% solution for that reason.

 

Those hair dryers must make a racket when you are pulling a load.

 

Thank you Brian, I am in Kentfield. Well considering my AC doesnt work, I guess i dont need to be concerend with that. I guess if I took my car to you in the first place I wouldnt have the siezed exhaust cam, f^cked up carbs, bastardized carb routing, ass-backward distributor installation , ETC. et cetera. Other independent ferrari mechanics in the area have watched out for this car prior to and during my ownership, live and learn and I guess I am a slow learner. I am having a bit of fun in any event. I still want a jalpa, after I set this 308 perfectly straight.

Sincerely,

the slow learner

 

With all this talk about removing thermostats, someone will do just that and leave the bypass port unplugged. Be it known, you can not remove the stat on a post 1974 Ferrari unless this port is tapped and plugged or it will assure overheating regardless of whats used for coolant.

Some years back I spent a good deal of time with the Redline engineers talking about the Water Wetter for use on cars with Plastic impellers on the water pumps. We had reason for concern that the chemicals in the Water Wetter caused the plastic to get brittle in a number of different race cars we were running at the time, none of them being Ferrari

A good deal of testing plastic impellers of various makes in various solutions with and without the Water Wetter showed no change or damage to the Ferrari plastic impellers what so ever. I remember running the tests for a good 8 months some 9-10 years ago.

We use the Water Wetter as a regular addition to the coolant when we flush the systems and are quite pleased with it. Needless to say, it was used in every race car we took to the track.

 

So... can someone see a difference on their temperature guage of a street car with a normally operating coolant system in good condition? I don't see how but maybe I'm missing something.

 

Good condition...no, as the stat is designed to maintain a constant temp in the system. Race cars are a different matter as they are always pushing the capacity of any given system on the car.

I look at the WW as a good system lubricator/corrosion inhibitor, anti foaming agent. Breaking the surface tension of the coolant keeps the OD of the liners "wetter" and just provides better heat transfer. Hot tub anti-foam agents will do much the same but it isn't pretty pink. Redline developed an excellent product that is reasonably priced...I choose to use it on a regular basis.

 

"Breaking the surface tension of the coolant"

The first time I used Water Wetter was a long time back in a 745 cu. in. IHRA Pro Stock drag race engine. With an Alan Root aluminum block with screw in freeze plugs, when we first poured the stuff in, that bastard began leaking from every plug, putting us into a panic. I guess it reduced the surface tension enough to leak past the rubber o-rings.
Anyway, almost all of my race engine customers use it or a similar product, all reporting 10 to 20 degree temp drops on the track.

 

Dam. No problem!
I loved the IHRA Pro Stock cars. Mountain motors vs nitrous small blocks. Very cool racing.

 

Not using it in the Ferrari (I sold the 348 a few months ago). I use it in the Ginetta which I drive without regard for the durability of the drivetrain!

BT
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Here 100+ degree temps are the norm in summer. Many Ferrari cooling systems are doing everything they can to not overheat in that situation so yes we do see lower temps.

 

FWIW, I didn't see anything in this thread about the heat capacity of your coolant. Water's heat capacity is larger than ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, the main ingredient in antifreeze. If you dump the same number of BTUs of heat into the same volume of water and a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix, the temperature rise of the water will be lower than the temperature rise of the mix.

Another factor where water outperforms antifreeze is thermal conductivity. Water conducts hear better than the glycols, which means it is better at transferring heat from the engine to the bulk coolant. Anyone questioning this is encouraged to look up the data in a resource such as the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, which is where I got my data.

So what?

All of you are talking about the temp of your coolant as though it was a direct measure of the temp of you engine. The factors I mentioned above should suggest to you that different coolants have different levels of effectiveness at removing heat from the engine. For example, since glycol is not as good at heat transfer as water, you might see cooler *coolant* temps with a 50/50 mix than with pure water, but your engine may actually be running hotter.

My only point here is that it can be misleading to equate changes you see on your coolant temp gauge with the changes in the temperature of your engine (the metal bits).

Jeff

 

So you check the oil temp.....you folks do have oil temp gauges, I presume?

 

Water Wetter works because it reduces the surface tension of water. With lower surface tension, the bubbles release quicker from the wetted side of the cylinder walls and the bubbles are smaller. This contributes to higher heat transfer to the water (due to thinner vapor layer and more wetting of the walls) so more heat is rejected from the engine. This lowers block temperature. If you look in the handbook for heat transfer under the topic of boiling heat transfer, you will see various (relatively complicated) correlations for film coefficients. The lower the surface tension, the greater the film coefficient and the greater the rejection of heat from the engine.

I have used the product since the early 90's. It works well and has been recommended by Mercedes Benz.

 

Yes, one would hope so, although that is tangent to my point.

The surfactants plus anti-corrosion and lubricity additives make Water Wetter an excellent product, one that I have used for many years. My post was aimed at those comparing coolant temp changes when switching among water (with or without Water Wetter) and various water/glycol mixes.

My apologies to anyone I mislead.

Jeff

 

Mostly becuase we are not allowed to run anti-freeze. If you run straight H2o the seals in the water pump go from lack of lubrication

 

Actually it was mentioned several times. It is pretty well known.

 

You can also try "hyperkhul". It is a German product and has been tested on Ferraris.