I honestly don't think Vince cares if he gets it or not, I have a feeling the school would like to get that third trophy into the trophy case though for future recruiting.
Oh yes he does - go look around - he WANTS it. But he didn't EARN it. UT makes me puke, one of the many reasons Nebraska left the Big 12 - er - the big 2 and little 10.
It is and he knows it too. I hope the payoffs in college were worth it. Personally I would rather have the Heisman and wait for my millions to come in the pros in just a few short years. Sad
It needs to stay "vacant". It should not go to anyone. Besides, if it's really looked in to you could more than likely find "things" VY accepted during his college career. And I cannot fault Bush at all. I don't know personally, but assuming he came from not the best neighborhood and didn't have a lot and people are offering to help your family out are you going to say no? It goes on, and there's no way in hell every single year this doesn't go on at almost every school.
Look how many people he has hurt and who have to pay the price now for his actions. You should fault him. I do not agree with how the NCAA works its punishment schemes. But it is what it is and he knew better, now others are suffering as well (as in players at USC who had nothing to do with this - they are paying for it while Bush is counting his money). Fault the hell out of him.
Whether Bush keeps it or not does not change his accomplishments on the field. Whether a relative got a washer/dryer, or housing assistance does not change the yards he gained. He was the best athlete in collegete football in 2005. Punishing todays student athletes and todays USC coaches with sanctions is missing the boat. The fault lays with schools and the NCAA utilizing the student athletes abilities in participating in a multi-million $ sports industry while they receiving very little for it. The NCAA and big name schools need to address this; not individual "student" athletes and their families.
I'm torn on this one. The rules are what they are, and he violated them. At the same time, there is no bigger exploitation in this country than college athletics. I used to say "Well, they're getting an education..." but that doesn't tell the whole story. NCAA football and basketball are such enormous money makers, on the backs of these amateur athletes who can't even sneeze and take a tissue from an alum. Many of them come from much humbler beginnings--or even total poverty--and just aren't prepared to handle the onslaught of attention and predators that suddenly surround them. Their entire life is surrounded by handlers, and I can see where the lines begin to blur. Meanwhile, the NCAA continues to shake more and more millions from the tree through more bowl games, bigger stadiums, tournaments, etc. There's an incredible imbalance--if you ever read Rick Telander's articles, he does a great job writing about this.
I know, he's hurt a lot of people by accepting those financial gains. And cost the chance for the current seniors, and other players at USC for the next 2 years to go to the BCS or Bowl games. However, USC has just as much of the blame in this as well. As a local radio host said, Reggie is now the poster child for what's wrong with the NCAA.
ha! I've known a few college/NFL football players and NONE of them got an education worth a damn in school. they simply don't have time to go to class or do the homework...football takes up 18 hours a day, seven days a week.
I'll see your friends and raise you one Dexter Manley! Actually, what I left out of that sentence was "I used to say 'Well, they're getting an education...'and then I actually went to college and saw for myself!"
I had to take a second (0:01) to go back and re-read your post. I guess you slept through all of the 2005 season to think Young didn't do anything to earn that trophy. Fortunately ESPN (USC Television) kept replaying Bush's three highlights all season long so while he sat in his paid for house and accepted free money he didn't have to produce on the biggest stage at the end of the year. Maybe a bit of the vomit stems from Nebraska's 1-8 record against UT since 1996.
This is the kind of crap that keeps all of our eyes atuned to a controversy while the politicians in DC rape and pillage the public trust with little or no justice for the taxpayers. If we want to hold such high standards, why is it OK for REAL crimes to be committed in influence peddling where the outcome really hurts the bill payers. I just find the irony in all of this stunning. Sorry, I think college sports are out of control.....the money involved is unbelievable, and when you follow it, it often leads to places you would rather not go. When a college has to spend $60M to get rid of a football coach (and his staff) and replace him, to meet contractual obligations, then I have to really wonder if the education system suffers in its wake. Perhaps I just do not get it....is all of this helping advance education in America, or is it just a sideshow that has its own merits and happens to reside under the banner of education?
Something everyone in the world has known about for 30+ years. (the imbalances) Schools are not babysitters. And I know a few that didn't WANT to EARN an education, and I know a TON that got their education and are using it well. Even though you are OBVIOUSLY biased for UT - and that's fine, I suppose, lots of people cannot see the forest because of the trees. VY was a great athlete then, how he is now is irrelevant. I read a story from him two weeks ago saying he WANTED it, and now I read a story today saying he DOESN'T want it. Can this guy make up his mind? I photographed sports professionally for over 12 years, I know A LOT of athletes personally, and I have ZERO problem with ANY of them - even the UT guys AND GALS I know, but what makes me sick are the pockets of arrogant sickening fans, they ruin it for everyone, and UT 'fans' are right up there with the worst of them - even OU fans know when enough is enough, but not UT fans. Every year, I get down on my knees and pray during baseball season/before the college world series = 'please lord, no UT, ANYBODY BUT UT'. I like the teams, but such a huge chunk of the fans just destroy it. And Mack Brown doesn't help. And if Bush would have just abided by what he told these two 'agents' he would do, we would not be having this conversation, but he went back on his word. Gee, he's trying to get something for nothing, imagine that!
How do you guys explain the the athletes that DO get their degrees?? Sure, there are some that don't, I don't know the precise number that do not - 50-60 percent, depending on the sport, depending on the conference, sanctioning group (NCAA, NAIA, etc.), and there are some (athletes) that have NO desire to even TRY to do even halfway well in class - if they go. But there are a TON of guys that graduate on time, on honor roles, dean's lists, we only seem to hear of the 'smart' guys, and the guys that end their eligibility with nothing to show for it so they are basically homeless. Then they play the poor poor pitiful me card - how they were 'used' (which we cannot argue with, to some extent), but THEY chose not to seek help when in school, and these schools DO pursue them with athletic academic advisors, so they have nobody to blame but themselves. And don't forget the regular non-athlete student body washout rate - it's pretty close to the athlete non-graduation rate.
Hand'outs, hookups, privilege, benefits, and whatever else is commonplace & universal w/ academic-athletes (amateurs who are in school). Heck, it's even prevalent in high-school & junior-highs, just the currency is different (if even). The thing w/ Bush was he took it to the next level. Parents living it up luxuriously. Bush himself having whips & stuff. Massive amounts of cash from more-or-less agents (marketing duo). It's accepted to some degree in the game. Keep it within reason, don't flaunt it, and don't associate yourself intimately & significantly w/ an agent & you'll be just fine. NCAA, schools, the players, the system, et'all all accept this. With regards to the status of the Heisman for '05 & Vince Young. I say keep it vacant, and that's that. In the hearts & minds of all, it's Reggie Bush's so that's that. . . I believe Wax was being cheeky w/ that, as it's become a meme/saying to blame G.W. (Bush) for everything going on now (ie. "Tonight's news: a double dip recession on the horizon, Iran preppin' for nukes, and B.P. oil-well still leaking!"... "Well duh, it's Bush's fault! ") Eggactly! Reggie Bush personified the "I'm smarter/sly'er than you!" mantra. He wanted to keep the perks & monies doled out by the fledgling marketeer/agent duo, and then sign-on exclusively w/ another firm. He literally would ignore phone-calls, letters, and all to such a degree that he avoided anything to do w/ those guys thinking they'd all of a sudden go away, once he declared for the NFL. Fat chance. Funny enough, the aforementioned is the hallmark of a spoilt, insolent, indifferent, and morally-questionable individual. When they think they can get what they want selfishly & not be accountable for it. Incredible arrogance must be ingrained in such an individual. It's no different than when Coach Carroll caught him w/ his late '90s black Impala SS (pimp'd out, btw) & Reggie Bush swore emphatically & incessantly it wasn't his (all coach Carroll said humorously but w/ a sarcastic stoic look, "Nice ride. Reggie."). Right after that encounter, he told ALL the players & support-staff (grad. student assistants, trainers, auxiliary staff, et'al) to NEVER EVER tell Coach Carroll that's his car or of his parent's home in S.D. & how/when they make it to the games, along w/ other stuff. Reggie Bush came from a well-to-do successful middle-class family in Southern California. There is nothing 'hood, poor, troubled, misinformed, or lacking w/ his background & upbringing. Heck, he even had an influential & disciplined father figure (get this, his actual father; though step, but raised him as his own).
I actually went to grad school with one of them. He graduated/finished his degree before going on to the NFL. But he constantly bemoaned how hard grad school was, since he didn't really get an education in college...never went to class, never learned to study, "tutors" did everything for him, etc etc. He had a degree, but no education. he ended up doing well in grad school, but it was much more difficult than it should have been. and he was a reasonably intelligent guy; it's not like he was a "dumb jock". He had just never been taught how to learn.
Dan Patrick was just on the air grilling William Dockery as if he were in front of a jury. It sounded like there were definitely trustees who wanted to give the award to Vince Young. It also sounded like the whole return was a well orchestrated chain of events (by Bush's camp) in attempt to mitigate further damage to RB's reputation while allowing the trust to appear less heavy handed, by precluding the vote to demand it's return. It worked the best it could.
Ehh'... scabs in the NFL in the '80s, no World Series in the '90s, lock-out for complete NHL season in the '00s, NBA superstar tried for rape, vacating (defaulting) of a Heisman trophy, blah-bla-bha... What's next, the most popular & prolific professional athlete on the planet turning out to be a sleazeball adulterer?
Yeah, but that really is no different with NON-athletes also. It takes all kinds. I know quite a few that are Medical Doctors now. Funny how almost all of them were academic all-americans in sports. Heck, I am finishing my degree as we speak, 33 years after starting it, I won't say it is 'hard', but it does take dedication and good time management, exactly the two things I did not have 33 years ago.
