Relative thinks LP640 is the best Supercar.

I drive both Ferrari and Lamborghini. I cancelled my 599 for the 430LP, because that car will much more intense. I like cars that stir my emotions, ones that when you get in and hit the starter your heart rate goes up. Ones that make you ask "am I going to jail today?"

I do think that while the 599 is a great performing car, it lacks in styling. And for my almost 400K, I want something that makes it that every time I pour a beer, I want to open the garage and go WOW.

Lamborghini has kept that edge to their cars while keeping performance high as well. And yes, the LP 640 is more of a handfull than the 599, but that just makes it more entertaining.

I would take the LP640, and the only reason I'm not is I might be heading towards an F50.

Keith

 

Hi Jim,
Well, I worked with the figures I could pick up and assemble quickly, about 45 minutes. As I said, my intent wasn't really to, take the gloss off of Ford's aceivements, just illustrating that sometimes, having a marque in the winning position, can be the result of a combination of factors, that often aren't taken into consideration in later times. The top finishers get discussed forever, maybe not the "rabbits" or an army of entries that increases the odds of a marque finishing in respectable fashion.

Actually I started out to show that Ferrari did have a few very successful years, in the 1960s.

As I believe I have mentioned elsewhere in this forum, I have always been enamored with the P3-thru-P4 and now your P4/5. I think the mid-12, once Enzo decided to adopt the notion, became a moment of change, for Ferrari and sports cars in general. The "supercars" were from that time on, almost defined by having mid-engines. I could see, maybe a V-10 variant of the 430 and I agree, there should always be a continuation of the mid-12 line. Even though, for the most part, I don't fit.

Bill

Added: BTW - Great commercial !!!

 

Start of round one..... Ding...

Jerry,
With all due respect, when compared to the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck (who schooled Clapton and Jimmy Page in the Yardbirds), or Robert Fripp, you've got to be kidding. Don't get me wrong, Clapton is good and you may like what he plays, but......


Regards,
Bill

 

Danny Gatton?

 

Danny Gatton was a really good guitarist, with an original flair, although he sometimes seemed to falter, when playing his really fast passages.

There are soooooo many...

 

I have owned my 599 for several months now. I drive it every day and I discover more each day that I am so far from finding the limits of this wonderful car. I seriously doubt that a 430 LP, if it is ever offered in the USA, will do anything to diminish my awe at the 599's capabilities. Every once in a while I find an open stretch or road to fly down.The acceleration of the 599 through the first three gears is stunning in it's quickness, but more so for how the F1 Superfast transmission literally cracks out the changes at exactly the optimum point on the rev counter.
I won't put the mannnetino into the CST-OFF position on public roads because you never know what will come at you from nowhere, but I will have the car at the track in the next few weeks where I can explore the limits without concern that someone else may apppear on the roadway going in the wrong direction. This is not a rap on the 430LP. If one is sold I will get it - I love my CS - but I doubt that the 430LP will ever have the flat torque curve afforded by the huge Enzo derived V12 in the 599.
Torque is simply one of those things like (insert your guilty pleasure in this space). Once you had it you're hooked and you can never go without!

 

Putting brand loyalty aside!

let me but it like that i will take the 599 over the Murcielago and i will take the LP640 over the 599 but that’s just me ! it looks way better in person but even so we didn’t click and im sure its about styling for me !! but after driving it and for a guy who drives a 1400hp viper i enjoyed driving it in straight lines and the city its more of a daily car compared to what I own ! and its drive totally different than my cousin LP640 the LP its more aggressive and it gathers more people around it compared to the 599 !!

but again i do love to own both cars which is what im trying to do right now incase I dropped the Zonda offer !

and for the one saying someone can crash an LP640 and its dangerous ! that’s a joke ! anyone can crash anything out there thats driver error not a car issue !!!

 

.... a lot of the posters on this thread seem to be wasting a lot of effort in trying to justify 'why' the 599 is 'better' than an LP640. Buy the car you prefer. Considering the 'looks' department, the LP640 wins hands down. On the 'technological' issue...the 599 probably takes the prize. Regardless, the 12 year old boy who sees both will probably angle for the LP....and that really is all that matters. Supercars should excite the emotions. The LP tends to win that arguement every time. Both are fun to drive, but most people will stop and admire the LP far more than the 599. Ferrari need to realise that 'supercars' need super styling.

 

"the LP640 wins hands down"...as with all related to taste, opinions, speak for yourself and not everyone...

 

You are making a very good point regarding the 12 year old admirer of the LP640!

Something appears to change between the 12th and (let's say) 30th year of life. If not, how could one explain the much higher 599GTB sales figures compared to the LP?

The essence of this point: It does make a huge difference if you have to take the decision to actually BUY a car or whether you just argue about two cars you will never buy. In reality the 599GTB has some serious advantages over the LP640. However, if you take a look at the LP640 (even without intending to ever own one) you can still understand why the 12 year old boys like it that much... This car has an incredible design. Also (if you get to drive it) the LP640 has a rawness you will never find in a Ferrari. In summary, the LP is a unique offer. In contrast, the 599GTB is the perfect mixture between GT and super sportscar (with slightly superior tenchnology and performance).

 

Given that the 599 is sold out for three years of production, at many more units that the LP640, and that to purchase one today you will have to plunk down $150K to $200K over MSRP, something Lamborgini would have a wet dream over, and the fact that the 599 outperforms the LP640 in just about every category based on testing done by independent German, British, American and Italian sources, the market has spoken loud and clear, Ferrari "needs to realize" NOTHING!!

 

.....touchy little souls aren't we...?

seriously, there is no arguing that the 599 is a fantastic car. Having driven both the 599 and an LP recently, I found the 599 to be almost 'too' good. By that I mean that it was somewhat effortless to drive. The LP by comparison is a beast... Although it has a few more 'rough edges' than the 599, it was the more 'involving' car because of them. As I said earlier, buy the one you prefer. Personally, I enjoyed the LP because of it's requirement to really be connected with the driving experience. The 599 did not seem to care one way or the other. Rather like having a dog or a cat. One requires your attention, the other really doesn't seem to mind if you're there or not...! Both great cars though.

On another note, it is interesting how seriously Lambo seems intent on taking Ferrari head-on in the supercar stakes.

Last point: what do you fellows think of the new Maserati Coupe...? A 612 for 1/4 the price...? (and a 1000% better looking in the bargain...!)

 

Good point. The 612 is one of those cars destined to be an afterthought in the grand scheme of things. If the Maserati can be built to the same quality level as the 612 it is a total no brainer. It will be the best Italian 2+2 coupe available.

I'd personally love to see the 612 go away and have Ferrari produce an Enzo successor, giving Ferrari a 4 level attack in the world of two seaters - New Dino (entry level sports car $150k front engine), 430 successor (primary sports car territory - $225-$275K including spyder, rear engine), 599GTB ($350-$400K - big GT segment, front engine), and Enzo successor (Supercar segment - $750k and up, rear engine/mid engine/jet engine whatever it takes to be the absolute best supercar).

I know there have been iconic Ferrari 4 seaters in the past - I have one of the most beautiful ones - but when the same corporate parent owns Maserati, I think that segment should be ceded to Maserati while Ferrari builds cars to dominate the two seater exotic market.

Luca, you know where to reach me

 

Ferrari will always heed its own voice, just as Lamborghini will. Starting with The Miura, Lamborghini realized that to be an alternative to Ferrari, which is really what they are, not really a competitor given capacity, they have gone the way of extremeness, if that's even a word, but you get my drift.
ferrari, like Porsche, can build anything they want. I believe they have opted, as a bow to Porsche, for a more usable, extreme performance car, such as the Enzo and 599. The reality is that each succeeding car will be faster than the one that came before, and thus must provide a far greater safety net than previously necessary. I bet the 430 replacement will be faster than either the 599 or the Enzo.
Comments about the lambo being "more involving" IMO reflect a very personal reaction, which is based as much on the previous experience of the driver and the degree to which he (she) feels challenged to rein the beast in. In many cases it just reflects the fact that you have to put a lot more effort into making the car respond as you want, which I think more likely to be the case.
Driving the 599 in race mode provides more challenge than I can live with on public roads. On track, it will obliterate the LP640 due to its better overall weight distribution/balance, and braking.
I can easily live with the somewhat dead center feel of the steering wheel. Moving at any reasonable speed gives me all the feedback I need.
The experience is incredibly dynamic in every respect.
As to the Maser, I am in complete agreement - just fabulous!

 

Absolutely correct... Few of us really "drive" the cars, if we are to believe the miles on cars for sale or their condition. At the end of the day, we love the idea of owning a supercar more than sheer speed. There must be something to looking at and sitting in a supercar that does it for each of us. I know many threads address sound and beauty amongst ourselves we argue over the virtues of a 6 speed or F-1 Transmission. So when someone says they like their particular brand, even (dare I say it) a Z-06 which I have parked next to my 430, let them have their fun, they paid for it. Best

 

How many miles do you have on your 599?

 

My 599 arrives in September. I have had the good fortune of driving two 599's a total of 4 times, 3 test drives at Fiorano, as well as the opportunity to drive one around Modena. All told I'd say about 60 miles. I've had the pleasure of driving a friend's Murcielago many times here in the States.
No question the Lambo is a great and raw experience. Having owned a Boxer for many years - I'm kind of tired of raw. I prefer great alacrity and agility, and on that count, the 599 is unequaled, in my experience. I have opted for the 6 speed manual because I also feel that the F1 does way too much for you and deadens the seat of the pants driving experience I also prefer. But that is the beauty of the car, you can have it either way.

 

Excellent anaylsis.

 

Right on the money Alex, from someone who has all kinds of cars and can afford what they want, it has a lot of value coming from you.

In addition, your post on torque is right on the money. No replacement for displacement I may add.

 

That would be quite the line up!

 

Hi Bill,
I am not as much of a guitar affactionado as you probably are and I admit I was just trying to catch a rise, noting he was not in the initial list, but Clapton is a great player and he's had a terrific career and hes still playing.

As we were discussing before I agree with Alex and Jim and others' thoughts that the range should not have the 612 in it. I am sure some use its back seat but how necessary is it for Ferrari to have a 4 seater? I do not know. But I suspect it is not critical. Maserati can do that.

best regards,
Jerry

 

That's OK Jerry, the whole guitarist thing was for fun. In the initial list, I tried to pick one player, from any particular genre, so of course, there were a number of heavy hitters left out.

On the other point, I for one, am pleased that Ferrari has produced 2+2s. I personally don't care about the back seat, so maybe a LWB with long seat tracks and a package shelf would be even better. But, they afford me the pleasure, of a long drive, wallowing in V-12 endorphins, in true GT style. I can fit comfortably into a 2+2 and drive it for hours, where many other models paralyze me after 10 to 20 minutes, if I can drive them at all.

Bill

 

I do agree with you on the GT thing- but don't you think the 599 fits that bill? Obviously, up until the 599 was out the 612 carried that torch.

Some guitar favorites of mine that we havent discussed: Gilmour, Page (you mentioned him) and even Eddie Van Halen- at his peak I love his hot dog antics, and how can I not include George Harrison. Maybe he was not quite in the aforementioned class, but he was a class act and showed he was a masterful song writer. His contributions to Abbey Road make that one of my favorite albums.

best regards,
Jerry

 

A lot of people have been talking about how easy the 599 is to drive, and how it isn't exciting enough, personally I have driven with CST off and it's PLENTY exciting. I imagine most of the 599 owners would agree with me, CST off this car is plenty difficult to drive 10/10ths.

 

Hi Jerry,
The 599 and the 612, very well may allow me to drive comfortably, but to tell you the truth, I haven't tried them yet. Don't ask me why, but I don't often ask people to let me try and fit into their cars I guess my comment was mainly referring to the older 2 seat GTs and "supercars." The people that have witnessed me try to manuever into them, have gotten some hearty laughs out of the process. Shaughnessy and some others, saw me wedge myself into a Miura, getting out was even more fun...I thought they were going to soil themselves. They were even taking pictures

There is a long list of great guitarists, it would be impossible for me to say one is the BEST EVER. Some have had monumental influence on the way that the notes on the guitar are played, they truly stand out in my mind. They have changed the way the guitar is played, by everyone after them, even if just a little.

The same for cars, a very long list of great ones, which is the BEST, I couldn't tell you.

The best wine, depends on my mood.

Superlatives just don't seem to fit into the REAL world.

Regards,
Bill