Removed the Cats & now runs Terrible! Help | FerrariChat

Removed the Cats & now runs Terrible! Help

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Gast308, Apr 30, 2006.

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  1. Gast308

    Gast308 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2006
    44
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy Gast
    1980 308GTSi - I had one cat that was bad and blocking my exhaust on the right side. So my mechanic removed both cats and installed straight pipes. In the mean time, he also removed the air tubes.
    It started up fine and as it warmed up as I was driving away, the car began back firing and "bogging" down as I accelerated and decelerated.
    Is there anything I can do so I can drive it with the bypass pipes in place? Or do I have to wait until the cats come in and the air pipes reinstalled?
    Bummer for this week-end!
    Randy
     
  2. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,076
    Savannah
    i hope your problem is only the fact that the air pump air lines and the emissions test lines to the manifolds must be capped off. otherwise you have burned exhaust valves on one bank. i would not drive the car until your shop can look at it. they should have never let you leave and drive the car this way if its doing this. if your car is fuel injected i would check the 02 sensor as well.
     
  3. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    He doesn't have an 02 sensor on a GTSi. Are you getting popping on deceleration?
     
  4. Gast308

    Gast308 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2006
    44
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy Gast
    Yes, the recirc tubes were capped off at the injection box and the tubes removed. It did pop on decelleration as well.
    I just had bought the car two weeks ago and the car ran OK before I took to the shop, it was just blowing exhaust much lighter on the right side verses the left, so I took it in to get checked. Also, the smog pump was disconnected.
    The mechanic told me that the cat was bad, causing the right side to be blocked. So he made some bypass tubes so I could drive it this week-end, but he did not hook up the air/gas recirc tubes. I only drive it about a mile and returned back to the shop. I told him to take it to a custom muffler shop and get new cats put on with the tubes! Muffler shop quoted me $300 for the pair of cats installed.
    I also found the pump for $49 at Autozone ( same as a 78 Camaro ).
    The only other thing now may be the muffer itself.
     
  5. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    universal cats work just fine on the car, but make sure the installer isn't an idiot. Some of them will simply cut the old cat out...including the flanges on both sides of the connections, and weld in the generic cat.

    You want a shop that will weld oem-style flanges onto the generic cats, and either transfer the thermocouple bungs, or install new ones. Then bolt the cats in.

    btw, it's normal for the exhaust to exit the muffler unequally.
     
  6. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,447
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    What does it mean if this is happening?
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,114
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The difference in exhaust flow from one exhaust pipe to the other was completely normal as I and several others told you at the time. A clogged cat did not cause it. Also removing the cats will NOT cause your car to run bad.


    As a result of a total misconception you have performed a variety of modifications to your car only to cause it to run badly and that misconception and a lack of understanding of the car and its systems continues to haunt you in your attempt to fix it.


    I strongly suggest you bring the car to someone who can actually diagnose and fix it.
     
  8. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
    4,151
    Marietta, GA
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    I have a set of hollowed-out, OEM cats on my '79, and it pops on decel (more like "burbles"), and the exhaust flow is MUCH less coming out of the right bank of pipes vs. the left...

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  9. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,447
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I just put a Hyperflow on my car. It is just great.

    Vs. a Test Pipe:

    NO change in sound (I have a Tubi too)
    NO loss of performance
    NO more exhaust stink blowing into the car.

    Really, skip the test pipe and buy the Hyperflow. It is really a no-brainer once you have tried both.
     
  10. Dr.T348

    Dr.T348 Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,599
    Chicago NW Burbs
    Full Name:
    Richard T.
    I did the same to my '83 308. Removed cats, installed straight pipes, capped off air injection system, and removed tubing. The car ran great without any other mods.

    Sounds like you have more af a problem.

    Oh, it did burble on decel. I think it may be due to decreased back pressure. No affect on performance.
     
  11. mike

    mike Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    721
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I had an '80 308 2V. I was running a Borla exhaust, no cats, disconnected air pump, and also heard the burble on deceleration. My experience was no Problem, normal!
    I believe you are experiencing the same thing...correct?
    Only issue is the bogging down/ loss in performance after these mods.
    one isssue is the decrease in back pressure (from removal of cats), but I'm not certain if the fuel mix needs to be re-set (richer?) since you don't have cats.

    Anyone else have an idea on re-setting the fuel to a richer (very slight adjustment!!)?

    Or should he just try a leak down & check those valves?
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,114
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall


    Car ran OK before, does not now. Some act of human intervention needs undoing and it is not the cats now or in the begining.

    This reminds me of the old days when cars got retrofit PCV systems installed to replace the road draft tubes. People thought anything related to smog control was bad then too and just disconnected and plugged them. Right up until the oil pan gasket and rear main seals blew out.
     
  13. Gast308

    Gast308 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2006
    44
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy Gast
    I should have come to the chat before going to an unknown mechanic!
    I am getting the Cats installed tomorrow and all the tubes, and air pump re-connected. If it doesn't run as good or better than when I brought it in to him, I will be really pissed.
    I used to do all my own work on my older Vettes, GTO's, and Mustangs.......I now need to learn about the Fcars.
    I will post the outcome, either way I am getting it away from this mechanic.
    Thanks guys...you are the experts.
     
  14. Gast308

    Gast308 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2006
    44
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy Gast
    Well..I got the car away from my"mechanic" after only three weeks! We used after market Cats and had the threaded nipples welded in like the OEM cats. Cost was $600 for the pair.....a bit high I think.
    Everything is bolted up and the car runs like it did when I brought it to him....no better.
    The car stumbles and hesitates ( misses ) intermittantly up to about 3000 rpm. Sometimes is runs great and idles great, and then it seem to loose a couple cylinders and runs bad for about 2-5 seconds before picking back up again.
    I can hear the pinging from the engine when this happens and I accelerate.
    Any ideas?
    Randy
     

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