Removing water pump | FerrariChat

Removing water pump

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by dersark_painclinic, Jun 1, 2013.

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  1. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    I decided to pull the pump out, I removed 6 nuts holding the pump, with gentle taping on the pulley the pump got loose about 2-3 mm from the engine but there is no way wants to come out. I don't want to pry a screw driver between the pump and the body. Any suggestion please.
    Sark
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,846
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Keep going. The o-ring in now holding it in place. Don't be scared to give it a few good taps with a plastic hammer to get it the rest of the way out. Just be sure you are coming out square to the housing, else it won't budge.
     
  3. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Bowie, I don't see what is holding it. It is little bit looser but way to go. Boy noting is easy on this car. Thanks for the tip.
    Sark
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    #4 fatbillybob, Jun 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,150
    Bay Area Calif.
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Squirt a little WD40 around the inside of the flange and try turning it a bit
     
  6. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Get the nuts started on the studs, then holding the pump cartridge with one hand, give each of the nuts a few raps in rotation with the plastic hammer, with the main body hanging down.

    Pre-loosening with WD-40 as Dave suggested is also a good idea. At some point you'll get some space between the two halves, and you can put plastic spatulas or dry wall mud spreaders in between and use that to help pry them apart further. Make sure you pry in two spots, 180 degrees from each other as Howie said, else it'll get catty-wampus and stuck.
     
  7. Mr. V

    Mr. V Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    1,247
    Portland, Oregon
    While you're at it, check the two electric "helper" water pumps tucked in behind the engine.

    One of mine had failed without me knowing it.
     
  8. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thank you all, finally the pump came out uneventfully. The propeller nut came out with some force, but the Polly nut is not moving, I believe I need to use an air gun to remove it I will do that tomorrow. At the bottom of the pump there is a plug do I need to replace that while I am taking pump apart?. Any body knows the torque for propeller nut and polly nut.
    Thaks.
    Sark
     
  9. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Now, the bearing shaft come out towards the Polly or towards the propeller. Thanks.
    Sark
     
  10. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    FBB, I see you are using 8 wing propeller which has a better circulation that 7 wings, your car assembly recommend that or you installed it regardless.

    Thanks for rebuilding post.
    Sark
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    I don't think it matters! The 355 and 550 have interchangeable pumps iirc. Ferrari sourced parts and pumps all over the map. I have seen 3 different versions of this pump so far and I'm not a proshop. Each of these cars cooled just fine. There are some who believe that our systems are marginal. While I do live and associate most with California cool climate people I am more inclined to believe that those with issues have other system problems often bad radiators. That said I don't live in triple digit ambient temps. Others say their oem systems are in good condition yet marginal in cooling. They have tried simple fixes to gain a few % better cooling without much real success. Sludge and gunk build in radiators and lower cooling efficiency no matter how well they are maintained. Time with fluid in them kill them. There may be very poor headroom in our OEM radiators which may be why some have issues in hot climates and others in cool climates don't. So while you do want good water pump efficiency a couple of vanes are not going to be the cat's meow. What is needed is a superior radiator which has the overhead capacity to survive some years of natural build-up and still cool the car.
     
  12. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    I am about to put the water pump back on. Do I need tread locker on the treads or not.
    Thanks, Sark
     
  13. maranello72

    maranello72 Formula Junior

    Jul 4, 2009
    352
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefano
    I agree 100%
     
  14. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,846
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    No. The nuts are nylock.
     
  15. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Okay, I rebuild the pump and started to putting back on where it belongs. I put the 6 new nuts on and tighten evenly to push the pump into the housing. All nuts when on Easley, I torqued to 25 NM, the bottom one at 6 o'clock is not getting thight and continue turning. I tried to get the pump out all nuts removed except that one keep turning and is not coming out. I know I am in big trouble, any suggestion how to removed that stubborn nut.
    Thanks,
    Sark
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    Did you strip the stud in the engine or did you strip the nut on the stud?

    To get off take out all nuts. Wedge a spatula between the WP and the engine gently toward the stripped stud. Twist the spatula to put pressure on the WP so it wants to come away from engine and unscrew the stripped stud at the same time. This will encourage the stud to come off. use NO pressure on the rachet toward the engine. You want some pressure to encourage the WP away from the engine and that will bring the stud out.

    Then go to Thread kits company and buy the kit to repair the engine side with a timesert.

    TIME-SERT Distributor locator

    If you need help I have been bribed before with chicken wings.
     
  17. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    FBB, I can not tell with the nut on, but I assume the nut been strip since it appears more delicate than the stud. I don't know if spatula will fit between since there is no gape to push in. That 6 o'clock nut is the worse one to work on. I am just frustrated with this project.
    Thanks will put your idea to work. Sark
     
  18. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    It spatula does not work cut the nut off with a cutting disc. Air tool and 2-3" disc and if that does not fit use a dremel and 1" disc. Then WP comes off stud and you can grab stud with vise grips or collet puller and back it out and then heli-coil, timesert etc.

    This is a pain but not a disaster. You wrench long enough and you will have to do this one of these days. Sometimes as a newbie you cause the problem sometimes not your fault you inherit the problem. Either way you gotta fix it.
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    Another option is to take a thin blade screwdriver or stout knife. Since stripped you can hammer the blade between the nut and the WP case. It will move because it is stripped. Wedge the nut away from the motor as you unscrew the nut. An air tool really helps because it is fast unscrew and puts less pressure to also turn the stud.
     
  20. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,846
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Do exactly as fatso says. I would first try as he said, remove all the nuts and apply outward pressure to the pump, while unscrewing the nut. The force Of the body of the pump against the nut will help push the nut over the galled section of the stud. If the stud is pulling, the same thing applies. Repair as stated..not a big deal, don't sweat it.
     
  21. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    Thank you all for the advises, I just look at the new nuts compare to the old original ones, boy there are differences.
    Thanks again, I may start working on it tomorrow, I will post my progress, I hope it is just the nut.
    Sark
     
  22. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    This is how I started to rebuild the water pump, pump came out uneventful. Using press makes it very easy to put the pump together. As FBB mentioned the disassembly is the reverse of the assembly. Picture 1 showes assembling the bearing shaft going in by press, put some RedLine assembly lube on and pushes in Easley. Then assemble the seal on by speasial tool goes on even easear, use three bound 1184 on the sealers metal section and push it in. See picture 3. Then put the spring retainer to hold the bearing shaft in place and assemble the polly by the nut, I could not find a torque for that so I thighten as much as I could, my wife helped me with the project. The propller goes on easy and torque the nut to 25 Nm picture # 3, 4.
     
  23. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
    981
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    The next step would be putting the pump where it belongs. This is the time when excitement started, and the 6 o'clock nylock stripped, Thanks to FBB and Howie to give me technical and moral support to face the disaster. Took me exactly one day the cut and remove the nut from the stud. As the result the stud came out completely destroyed, picture#1. Luckily I removed the stud by turning anti clockwise by wise grip. Picture #2. I ordered the stud from Ricambi. Now I am waiting to arrive to put this thing together. I have 2 questions from FBB and Howie, do I need to use assembly lube on the pump flange to make the process smother. Second question I believe 25 Nm torque is way to heigh for tiny nylock. Taz should have torque specification in his 575 WSM, would appreciate if he conforms that.
     

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