Renault asks the FIA to let them use their mass damper . .

I've got to come clean on my ignorance. Do you have a link to anything that details what, exactly, their mass damper is/was? I know the general functions of dampers, but I missed the explanation of what made their's so controversial.

 

http://www.formula1.com/race/technical_analysis/758/291.html

Charlie Whiting has declared it a moveable aero device while the stewards don't agree. I personally don't see how's it an aero device at all, and Mr Whiting had declared it legal at first.....fishy to say the least.

 

Peter Windsor was on wind tunnel tonight and explained it very well. Essentially it's a small (beer can sized) canister filled with fluid that has a hockey puck sized weight floating freely within it. The weight basically acts as a counter balance for the nose under heavy braking/steering/turning.

Renault could have easily used this as justification for the poor result but instead I think was honest by blaming the tires. With or without the system I think the tires are now the most important thing for the Renault.

 

That graphic clearly shows that there is no aerodynamic benefit by the damper that is entirely encased within the bodywork. I think it provided Renault a bit of a performance advantage that helped them maximize the performance of their tires, and the only reason why it was deemed illegal was because the FIA wanted to try and even things up with Ferrari to make the championship more interesting. How the stewards can say it abides by all the technical regulations and the FIA deems it an illegal "aero device" make it pretty clear in my opinion that Max and Bernie want MS to win the championship so he'll stay around another year and maintain the fan base for F1, even if they have to help him to do it. I think there is something also going on with the michelins, but the timing of the damper ban really stinks.

 

If the FIA says it is legal to use, then Ferrari will just put theirs on as well.

 

Seems the FIA has allowed them to use it.

http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/060731162624.shtml

 

The problem is Ferrari never truely figured out how it works. The one they had seemed to have no benefit. Anything Ferrari can't get or can't figure out gets banned.

 

Ehh...The damper was used by renault for what, 9 months without any fuss? Now the problem rises.

 

Longer than that. The system was used but was different last year, it was more rudimentery and i guess ofther teams didn't see the benefit at first. I'm guessing someone asked to have it looked at. For Charlie Whiting to do an about face like that with no provokation seems unlikely. I'm guessing Ferrari said something because of their recent history of doing such things.

 

Oh yes... bring on the conspiracy theories and the crtics... everyone has it in for Alonso and Renault...

They are all working to make sure that Renault do not win the world championship again... and that Alonso does not win another race... It is all being done to stop Renault and make sure that Ferrari wins... yes FIA, Bernie, Charlie, Mosely, race stewarts...this whole world does not want Renault to win.

BOOO HOOO!

What are you going to do about it RENAULT and ALONSO?

Go in a corner and cry foul... OR FIGHT BACK! Fight back with the legal equipment like a real champions would or cry your way to get anoth farce championship... because it would be another farce champioship if Renault win it with illegal equipment.

Then again I forget... Renault and Alonso are not real champions... real champions don't accept farce championships!

 

If they deem the device 'illegal', and Renault has been using it since the beginning of the season...then in theory, can the FIA could strip them of all their previous results?

 

Well, the announcers made the very valid point that, while Renault suffered tire problems, other teams fare quite well with them. So, maybe it is setup related.

 

LOL When the damper system has been deemed LEGAL and used for over a year and then suddenly deemed illegal on the grounds that it was an "aero device", you have to admit that there is something behind the FIA's decision to ban the device. Admittedly, Alonso and Renault had problems with their tires this past weekend and that affected their performance but it does not excuse the FIA from the rather obvious appearance of impropriety. As for farce championships, last year's championship was fought out very hard between KR and Alonso and Alonso is a worthy champion. Even though I despise MS, I think he has earned three of his championships but the others were, IMHO, because he was the sole focus of an entire team and tire company whereas Michelin had a number of teams to supply and could not focus on any one driver out of the 16 running on their tires.

And if you think real champions don't accept farce championships, MS had no problem with his teammates moving over to gift him several wins, not to mention crashing out other drivers because he was afraid he would lose, or using banned traction control software. Nothing Alonso or Renault have been running has been deemed to be illegal; the FIA has simply resorted to questionable measures to make the championship more exciting.

 

The Suspicious Stink of F1
Monday July 31 2006

It's difficult to concentrate on Formula One when there's such a strong smell of suspicion coming from the FIA's technical delegate...

It's a bit like sitting down to watch a film you've been looking forward to and finding that a piggery has moved next door. Charlie Whiting's move to ban the Renault damping system so pivotal to their set-up makes me mega suspicious - and trying to focus on the German GP has been hard given such a rank smell.

The fact is that Renault will have shown their damping system to him before they put it on the car; it has reportedly been on the car since Brazil 2005, and only now - with the F1 Championship delicately poised - does he decide to ban it. It raises huge questions over either his competency or raises the possibility of connivance within the FIA.

If the system was illegal then it should have been banned straight away. If it was illegal and he failed to spot it for nine months then clearly he is not up to the job.

Whiting's ban was undermined by the fact that the FIA's own race stewards could see nothing wrong with the Renault system.

The timing is very suspicious, coming so soon after the French GP when Fernando Alonso snatched an unlikely second place. Perhaps something needed to be done to put a bigger gap between Schumacher and Alonso if Schumi is to win the 2006 Championship.

Exactly the same thing happened in 2003 when after the Hungarian GP it looked like the 2003 season was getting away from the Scuderia. All of a sudden Max Mosley was announcing that there was a problem with the shoulder of the Michelin tyre and the tyre rules were tightened up to benefit Bridgestone. Embarrassingly for the FIA, Mosley said they hadn't been influenced by anybody and then subsequently Ross Brawn admitted that they had told the FIA about it and that Max had flown down to Maranello the next day.

That stank too.

Tom Rubython. the maverick publisher of F1 Business magazine is not slow to point out that Ross Brawn and Charlie Whiting have been drinking buddies in the past. He has also been very vocal pointing out the unwise nature of such a relationship given the fact that Whiting is the keeper of all the teams' F1 secrets. He knows the technology on all the cars and (no pun intended) needs to be whiter than white..

Maybe it is just coincidental that it came now and we are being overly critical. Only complete transparency will rid us of our doubts. What the FIA need to do now is print a full report. We need to know:
a) Why did Whiting ban the system now?
b) Was he prompted by another team - and if so, who?

It's unlikely Whiting will step down. He is one of Bernie Ecclestone's coterie of former Brabham personnel such as Herbie Blash who he likes to keep around him at races.

Our opinion is this: keep him as race director, for which he is very competent, and appoint a new technical delegate who does not fraternise with any team. And print a full report into the circumstances surrounding this highly controversial move.

 

Not resolving the mass damper issue is bad for everybody, not just Renault. It would be just as bad if Ferrari uses it, then later on looses all its points at the green table.

The FIA has to make a decision now and live by it, one way or the other.

Regardless the real problem Renault has, is that the current Michelins don't work well with their chassis and because of the idiotic summer test freeze (thank you Mr. Eddie Jordan, putz!) nobody can test anything and hence the status quo will remain cemented. Combine that with traditional very hot weather for Hungary and Turkey and two additional Ferrari dominations are almost guaranteed. Good for Ferrari and the championship. I'd bet that two races from now, MS will be leading the points and Alonso will be the challenger.

The summer test freeze and the current situation with Michelin only shows the stupidity of a 3 year freeze on engine development starting 07. The test data for the engines was taken from May/June. A period where Renault still dominated (although maybe for other reasons than engine). So it is quite possible, that all technical developments e.g. Ferrari made on the engine site since then will be negated come next year. Similar is true for everybody else.

In short: Test bans and freezing technology is not the answer. At least it shouldn't in F1. Test restrictions and technical limitations is ok.

 

So MS is a real champion for accepting that BS win at Indy in 05? Oh please, even you must see the FIA bleeds Ferrari red. Didn't MS win the 94 championship with a car deemed illegal and take Damon Hill out to win the title. Yeah, real champ there.

 

Luis, don't get so worked up about the biggest Cheater in F1 History. He will never be a Fangio, Clark, or Senna.

 

History will remember 2005 as a farce championship because:
1) The F1 governing body twisted and bent subjective rules to make sure that one team loses its competitive edge and two other teams gain a severe advantage through the rules.
2) Unethical design and development by Michelin who had not concern for the safety of racers, track officials and race fans.
3) Unethical team orders deployed by Renault who hindered the progress of Fisichella.

The only real race of the year was USGP when the FIA's own rules slapped them in the face, when Michelin's unethical practices back fired and when Renault could not deploy their illegal team orders.

So well done RENAULT and well done ALONSO... for winning a farce championship!

This year you can cry your way to another farce championship because all your wins are through illegal equipment. A real champion would fight back with heart and passion and not win farce championship through appeals, lawyers and subjective rules interpreted by unethical officials.

Yes putting Senna in the same bracket as MS or Fangio is an insult to all true F1 fans and two of the best racers of all time.

Senna is probably in the same group Rubens Barrichello and Damon Hill. Even Mika Hakkinen was a better racer than Senna... but that discussion is for some other ugly thread and some other ugly person who likes to hold on to ugly memories.

 

2005 was nothing more than a major FART of a season PERIOD !

 

You're right about that Tony.

 

Blah blah blah, more BS

 

This is not an FIA-Ferrari conspiracy. The FIA turns around and bans previously approved developments all the time, just this past week they also banned BMW's nose "towers," and Super Augri's infra red tire warmers, both of which initially got the green light same as the mass damper. Are they protecting Ferrari from a Villeneuve/Yamamoto's championship run? I don't like that they ban this stuff either, because it is stifeling the engineering side of F1.

I do think Renault should be allowed to run the device, or at least the reason for banning it does not hold up, it is obviously not an aero device, which is a particularly strange reason for banning something in a season of flexing wings and flapping side mirrors.

As Renault themselves (and others) have said, this is not the whole reason, or even the main reason why they are off the pace in Germany. The tires were obviously an issue and they fared even worse than many other Michelin teams. Renault ran a redesigned rear suspension in Germany and this likely compounded the problem as the rear blistered.

But that isn't as fun as another FIA controversy, is it?

 

The BMW nose deals weren't legal in the first place. They would fall under the same ban as the X wings that got banned a few years ago. As far as infrared tire warmers goes i don't know why that got banned. There has been a history of things getting banned with input from the scuderia so the idea is not far fetched. This may not be the case here but who really knows. I agree though, the Michelins have not been up to snuff these past few races. Alonso seems to be all over the place especially in the last few laps. It looks like the Renualt is killing it's rear tires.

 

It's not that they want Renault to lose. It's that they want MS to win, as it is good for F1 business. I'm not saying I like it, but that's the way it is.