Renault Blocking Tactics

So lets see how many people on FChat will now call Todt a whiner like Alonso and Flabio have been called when they questioned the FIA or Ferrari about something that thought was unfair...shouldn't Todt just shut-up and race too?

 

I do not think Todt was whining. He was simply stating the fact that Renault has set a dangerous precedent for the other teams to now employ. Do not be surprised if you see Ferrari use the same tactic and then challenge anyone to question it since the FIA apparently turned a blind eye to it with Renault. Do I think it is right to use tactics like this? No.....

As a teammate, to slow another competitor in a turn or two to help your own teammate in positioning is a part of racing. You will notice, I said a turn or two, not an entire lap or four. However, if the car being passed is obviously slower due to mechanically malfunctioning the pass flag should be used and that car should allow the challenger by. If both cars are roughly equal in speed, the driver displaying the most talent needs to use that talent to get by.

What Renault did was not racing. Running two abreast for several laps or even for a lap is absolutely absurd, unethical and blatant abuse. Alonso was running 4 seconds per lap slower than MS. This a very obvious difference in car speed. Alonso should have gone to the pits and let his team correct the tire problem. To attempt to form up a parade lap to slow following drivers and prevent them from having any possibility of passing is ridiculous.

I have never had the opportunity to compete in any upper auto racing classes but I have raced and did race professional MX for Kawasaki years ago. In our MX schools we taught riders how to use the track to their advantage when someone was attempting to pass. Sometimes talent made up for sheer speed on the track. Block passing was one form of passing that we employed but that is generally a dirt track style and cannot be employed in auto racing due to track surfaces. Our team would employ some delay tactics in a corner or two to aid another on our team who might be chasing a championship. However, it was a corner or two and not a lap or several.. There is a difference. If we had employed that tactic of running two abreast and not allowing anyone else a line to pass for an extended period of time we would have been black flagged and removed from the field.

There will always be team driving as long as there are two and three car teams competing in any form of auto racing. However, to blatantly misuse blocking techniques and intentionally slow down the whole field is wrong. The pass flag should have been used on Alonso and his teammate should have gone ahead and raced and Alonso should have used what talent he has to place as highly as possible. He is a very talented driver but his car was experiencing tire problems, which is out of his control. He needed to let the pitcrew work on that problem and come back out racing. It was obvious team orders by Flavio to form up and block the field. Wrong call by Flavio. He has set a dangerous precedent........If this type of driving is allowed, I can see in the future a team qualifying #1 and #2 and then driving two abreast for the entire race, not allowing anyone to pass, even if they had superior cars or talent. Is this where we want racing to go????

But then, these are just my opions, which are allowed. Just as you have your opinions, which are also allowed in open discussions.

 

And Alonso was just stating a fact when he mentioned the grid penalities he got for allegedly slowing Masa in Monza qualifying and for brake checking Doornbos in Hungray and Flabio was just stating a fact when he mentioned how the FIA had approved the mass damper system as legal since last year and then changed its mind in the last third of the 2006 season...no whining there either... and running two abreast has always been legal...and if Todt wanted to try it in Japan he is stupid for mentioning it now as the FIA will now have a chance to prohibit it...except we all know how pro-Ferrari the FIA is...

 

Well, we saw Schumi and Massa work together at Turkey T1 to box in Alonso.

But I think Todt is putting FIA on notice that they consider themselves free to have Massa move aside for Schumi.

 

It sounds like you are whining (just kidding Todt should shut his french mouth and just make sure Massa helps Schumi and the team. I would not whine at all if Massa and Alonso take each other out, by accident of course

I will whine all week long if Massa does not finish in the points in front of Renault or take a Renault out !

 

I did state that we will see teams working to assist each other for a turn or two and that is racing. I know it will happen on all teams. Doing it for long periods of time is not okay. Renault, Ferrari, Toyota, Honda, BMW should all be allowed to race..........Now, McLaren, I do not know if they possess the technical, mechanical know-how to keep a car on the track to the finish.......

 

Excellent post. Sour Grapes, I guess Todt doesn't remember Ferraris tactics at the Malaysian GP in 1999.

 

I never saw foul play during the race in regards to blocking. I've seen Ferrari have their number 2 driver let MS pull away in the first dozen and a half laps or so. Sort of like a Trulli Train, but not nearly as bad.

 

Todt just wanted the world to know that they'll be doing this too. it's just an early warning to renault.

 

Let's see if the FIA heard what the fool had to say too...

 

i'm sure the FIA is paying attention to this

 

You really think Todt didn't want the FIA hear his comments. I think it was quite a tactful comment. Kind of makes FIA either take action. If they do not it leaves it open for other teams that use this manuver to argue that they got away with it here. I don't think Todt cares which course the FIA takes. Again I think it was a really tactful comment.

 

The FIA's course may be coarse...

 

It's hard to draw a line between racing for possition and blocking.

Let's say MS is 1st, FM in 9th and FA is 10th. Should FM let Alonso pass him so Alonso can try to catch up MS ?

What if MS and FM have some problem and running 9th and 10th - should they let Alonso pass from 11th so he can win a race ?

Hows any of that is different from what happend in China ?

I think this is where strategy comes in play - if you can't pass on a track - pass in pits.

 

I edited mine but got your hint. thanks

 

For Ferrari to bring this up is quite humerous. I think it comes down to precedent. Other teams haven't been punished in the past for using obvious team orders. It would be hard for the FIA to punish Renault now when the championship is on the line. If the FIA wants team orders to stop they need to put their foot down, race disqualification or something of that nature will get the point across - although I recommend that they make this clear to the teams after the 2006 season.

 

my GOD will this topic ever end ????????????????????????????????????????

 

IMO, what's fair is fair. As in 1) People that used to defend Ferrari for teamwork should accept the fact that others will use similar tactics and not complaint about Renaults running as a team here on the forum.
2) People that said Ferrari is dirty for teamwork should also come on the forum and complaint about Renault's blocking tactics just as well.

Now, regarding what happened at China. IMO, it is one thing to hold an opponent at bay as it is the passer's responsibility to make the pass and not the passie's job to move over. The driver in front has all the right to make it hard for the driver in the back to pass. This applys when it is a one on one dual on the track.

However, Renaults were running side by side on the straights at China to block Schumacher. This action makes it impossible for MS to pass as they can't go three wide without taking each other out, impossible and not hard to pass. As in this case, it is two Renault drivers against one Ferrari driver and to me is hardly the same as the situation mentioned above. I think what happened is that Fisi wanted to hold MS back but MS was too fast, which forced Fisi to drive faster as well. Because if Fisi had continue to slow, MS would have passed him eventually and go after FA. As it turns out, both Fisi and MS caught up to FA as a result. Now, if FA had let Fisi pass as Fisi clearly had the faster car and blocks MS instead as the dual caught up to him, I would say that all the blocking was done fair and square. But this was not the case, at least not for a couple of laps. FA finally moved over and let Fisi through as MS and Fisi were simply too fast for FA to handle without the possibility of accidentally taking out one another. As we all know what happened next, MS had little trouble passing FA after.

 

Excellent post Anthony C. ! Wish I was able to write that well!

 

i don't mind 1 on 1 blocking. but 2 cars working together blocking 1 car? thats very unsporting, IMO

 

I think that Flav didn't let Fisi pass Alonso for a few laps, and hence why he had to 'wait' behind/beside until he got the nod. He didn't want to let Schu past, as they were all driving for position, but the Renault pit wall didn't give hjim the ok to pass until it was blatantly obvious that Fisi and Schumacher were too fast for Alonso. I would say that if Fisi had been allowed to overtake Alonso, he would have done as soon as he came up behind him.

 

I think the rules just went from grey to black after Renault's blocking tactics were not questioned!

In either case the right team and racer prevailed!

 

Exactly, I actually kind of find it amusing that even after Renault's questionable tactics Schumi still walked away with the race. Whether they "cheated" or not is simply inconsequential at this point.

I think those above have it correct, Todt just wanted to force the FIA to either aprove or disaprove of this tactic for the final two races, not necesarily looking for a penalty for Renault....although I'm sure he wouldn't have complained.