Renault engines F1

Unfortunately not. As all the cars need to carry ballast just to make minimum weight, this fuel saving advantage is largely a paper advantage that won't translate to much on the track. Under the old regs with small tanks, the advantage would have been meaningful...

 

That doesn't sound right to me.

 

engines using less fuel = able to fit smaller tanks = able to place more ballast to places you need = faster car.

There is no need to fill the car with 300 liters if it only needs 250 for the race.

 

+1

Also don't forget the aero advantages of a tighter package.

Mark

 

The way I see it is that smaller fuel tanks ie less fuel = more ballast which could lead to a 'back off' from the team in regards to making minimum weight after the race, did I miss anything?

 

Minimum weight is for the end of the race - If all the cars weigh the same at the end of the race, and if a Ferrari needs 200 kg of fuel to complete a race, and a Renault powered car needs 170 kg of fuel to complete the same race distance, then at race start the Ferrari will be carrying 30 kg of fuel more than the Renault powered cars, and that Renault advantage only slowly diminishes as fuel burns off through the race.

The lower fuel consumption of the Renault engines is a definite advantage, it can be worth a few 10ths of a second per lap at the start of the race!

 

Interesting how the same engine has two different results. The chassis makes the difference.

 

Most cars are filled with close to 150kg of fuel, and if RB are able to complete a race with less than 140kg, good for them, but the fact remains that they are 15-25bhp behind the MB engine which will continue to make use of hot blowing exhaust technology this year. The additional bhp from the MB engine makes up for Renault's efficiency and the MB hot blowing tech further helps them, but how much remains to be seen. Renault's cold blowing sure isn't helping any of their platforms this year though. The real test will be with Williams

 

I'd take a MB motor if I had my pick of the litter...

And what is the difference between hot and cold blowing? Renault doesn't have the hot blowing? I thought that "hot blowing" just referred to the EBD?

 

Renault engines have cold blowing which is a term used to cool the exhaust valves which the Renault engine requires to run at such high rpm. Cold blowing does not produce the same thrust hot blowing does, but hot blowing is pretty much an optional thing for the Mercedes engine as it does not rely on it like the Renault engine relies on cold blowing, but hot blowing indeed produces more thrust. Hot blowing involves dumping fuel into the chamber and igniting it to produce thrust while cold blowing involves dumping fuel in to cool the valves and ignite, but not at the same igniting timing as hot blowing initiates when off throttle. It's complicated.

This year, Mercedes hot blowing has the advantage which is why we are seeing Red Bull exit their exhaust in a non-beneficial area really. Wasn't going to add much regardless of where it was positioned. MB however will gain a little from their placement.

 

Very interesting, thanks.

 

DECEMBER 7, 2017

Customers may beat Renault in 2018 says Prost


Alain Prost has admitted Renault may struggle to beat its engine customers in 2018.

Next year, the French carmaker will continue to run its own works team while supplying identical power units to both Red Bull and McLaren.

F1 legend Prost, a Renault advisor, says it will not be easy for Renault to beat them.

But he told Auto Motor und Sport: "For me, the pressure is positive, even if it is difficult.

"The factory team will race against two well-established teams, where the entire organisation that Renault is still setting up already exists.

"And both of those teams also have top drivers -- maybe even the best. On paper we cannot beat Red Bull and McLaren," quadruple world champion Prost said.

The great Frenchman admits Renault was disappointed to miss its target of fifth in the constructors' championship in 2017, "But we will be better next year".

"And the comparison with the customer teams will help us to gain experience in order to get closer to the top teams," Prost continued.

"We will be here for a long time so it's important that we make progress every year. In the end, if we want to win, we will have to beat everyone."

 

No change since 2008 then

 

Then there were the accusations that STR were ill treating the cars causing all the engine unreliability problems at the latter races of the season.

Well, there was some technical clarification on this.

Firstly & simply put, the MGU-H unit converts engine exhaust heat into electrical energy for storage. Now Renault introduced a 2017 design for this unit.
It seems that it has been suffering from an oil seal disintegration, allowing oil to seep into the charge air system & thus through the engine, causing high oil consumption & eventual engine failures.

Now, the turbocharger compresses the inlet air, causing it to heat up. So it needs cooling, passing through the charge air cooler (CAC) to bring the temperature down.
Renault have been saying that STR does not cool the air enough & runs a far too high inlet air temperature. STR deny this.

So some independent tests were carried out & it was found that the Renault temperature sensor was over reading by up to 17 deg C!
It was also found that air was indeed a little hotter than predicted but only by about 5 deg C..
Anyway, the oil was leaking through the cooler & coating the inside, the high heat causing it to bake on to the inside, causing blockage & heating the air even further.
Flushing them through at the track, with nothing else available to them, could not remove much of the residue. Hence the many embarrassing failures.

Renault eventually & grudgingly admitted their mistake. Which is good news for McLaren, as Renault have decided to revert to their reliable 2016 MGU-H design for next year.

 

FEBRUARY 5, 2018

Renault engine one second faster says Boullier


Eric Boullier says McLaren will get a one second per lap boost simply by using a different engine in 2018.

After three years with Honda, the British team lost patience and will use customer Renault power this season.

Team boss Boullier says McLaren is on schedule for 2018.

"The Honda and Renault engines have a different configuration so we had to re-design the rear of the car," he told France's L'Equipe. "But we have made up the delay."

Boullier said communicating with Renault is easier, after McLaren struggled to adapt to the Japanese culture.

"I insisted upon attending the first technical briefing with Renault," he revealed. "Just to help my guys if they did not understand something.

"I am sure that both sides are happy."

Expectations of the McLaren-Renault partnership are high, with some even predicting wins and a championship tilt.

Boullier said: "We need a little time to adapt and it's still too early to say. We are not the only team and I do not know what the others did in the off-season.

"But we introduced the Renault data in the simulator and discovered that just by changing the engine it turned out to be a lot of lap time."

When asked how much exactly, he revealed: "One second."

 

Exactly. Engineers want to control the weight and mass of the car.

Less fuel onboard also means a more stable handling car over the entire race. Less weight change from beginning to end. Better tire performance over the race too.

 

This does not shock me in the least. Really glad to hear this. That all said, Renault works are nearly all staffed up with some 700-750 staffers and they are really going for it. Renault will be a team to beat soon enough, so I worry for Red Bull and McLaren in that they will just become customer teams. Prost does not seem to believe that for the time being, but I believe that will change.

 

And when Mercedes gets a 2-second boost this season, where does that leave McLaren?

 

Or Ferrari or RB. No one other than Merc is going to win a championship until we get the next engine reg. And even then it might not happen.

F1 needs McLaren to be competitive and the Renault will enable that. Next few seasons are going to be awesome. Merc and Ferrari competing for the WCC, sort of. And RB, McLaren and Renault not far behind.

 

Why? The longer rules are in effect the more parity we see between manufacturers and last year it's easily argued that Vettle and Ferrari could have and should have won at least the Drivers Championship. The Ferrari package was clearly faster than Mercedes in the early stages and if it weren't for the mistakes by Vettle in Azerbaijan and Singapore or the car reliability in Malaysia and Japan Vettle could, if not easily, have taken the title. Add in Red Bull and Verstappen's great form towards the end beating Hamilton even more so. In truth over the course of the year the Ferrari package was faster than the tricky Mercedes. Just like 2012 Ferrari should have taken the WDC but didn't. Don't blame the opposition for bringing their A game.

If Hamilton and Mercedes take the WDC again in 2018 I don't think anyone can blame the rules.

 

First of all, Mercedes deserve all the success they have enjoyed. Ferrari and RB's chance was last year when they were vulnerable. But what Mercedes have shown time and again is that they understand and recover from issues. And more importantly they execute very well when they don't have the fastest car in a weekend. Some car characteristics cannot be changed with in-season development, and the issues of the 2017 car will have probably been addressed in the next one. I suspect they will be back to winning in a smoother way, even if it isn't dominance.

With regards to Ferrari: with major regulation changes, development and development of the design philosophy starts years before the car hits the track. Though James Allison left Ferrari in July 2016, his imprint was very much in the 2017 car and more importantly the technical organization that produced it. I think there is a strong chance that Ferrari will once again fade with his departure. Not immediate but over the next few years.

Ferrari also has a weak driver line up compared to Merc and RB. Vettel seems to have peaked at Red Bull. Some drivers don't cope well with pressure and pressure is all you get at Ferrari- mountains of it. Kimi simply no longer has the speed to bring home a WCC.

 

I'm amazed that SB hasn't outgrown his brittle impetuous personality. LewHam may be a giant twit, but at least he reeled in his childish piques on the track. Kimi's Sell By date expired in 2015.

 

I don't know if I agree that Seb peaked at RB. I'm actually more of a fan of his at Ferrari than I ever was in his RB days. He still has episodes (too many) of toys being ejected from the pram, but overall I feel his driving is at a higher level than before. He's really earning it now and can be masterful. I think the blown diffuser RB's just flattered his style. Now he's raised his game.

I can't claim Ferrari are my favorite team on the grid, far from it, I also prefer Hamilton over Vettle as a driver. but I was still rooting for SB and Ferrari to take the WDC last year, it would have been a truly impressive feat and I feel that both the driver and team dropped the ball while Merc/LCH stepped it up to a higher level to overcome their deficiencies, I wish I could have seen SV/Ferrari do the same.