Renault: Race-winning engine won't come from us this year

I was just about to add that to the 'equalization' thread, but it probably deserves its own.

Seems the pissing & whining is starting to go 'public'..... Firstly we have CH saying, basically, the PU is crap, maybe even worse than last year and now we've got the Renault guys saying the Cans are being too aggressive.

While 'moaning' between partners has always gone on, it's normally behind closed doors, not media fodder. This is unusual.

The Cans problem of course is what other options do they have? I'm sure they'd love some Merc or even Ferrari power, but I can't see either happening. I suspect they've already had some quiet discussions with Honda about next season, but that doesn't look like the smartest move right now either......

Cheers,
Ian

 

If they built their engines in house, you would not have this kind of complaining. That is what happens when you are merely a garagista....

 

Nooo. Alain at Renault comes to mind. Made a beeline to Mclaren when Renault were complacent.

 

I see this more as a regulations' failing.

 

How can it be a failing of regulation that one engine manufacturer has done a better job than the others? I don't see Ferrari pissing and moaning about it - but then they seem to have got their act together a bit closed the gap somewhat. Red Bull are staring down the barrel of being 5th or 6th placed team (behind Merc, Williams, Ferrari, probably Lotus & maybe even FI). Could even be 7th if Honda can light the touch-paper!

 

Ferrari are moaning as well. If someone's advantage lasts for 2 seasons at best and others can't develop enough to catch up I loose interest. Renault have big resources and should not be allowaed to talk about throwing the towel at the first race of the season. I think one shouod either be able to develop freely staying inside the number of engines permitted or have more engines available for the season.

 

Then they should get their act together.....

 

The problem is, lets say the guys back at the factory find and fix the problem tomorrow.
The fixed engine cannot be rotated into the current 5 engines until next year begins.

This is definitely a regulations problem.
And the Teams VOTED for it.

 

Ironic...as Renault pushed for the new regulations more than anyone.

 

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken there Mitch.

Firstly, they've all got tokens available if they want to use them for major changes.

Secondly, I'm certain Charlie is giving them much 'latitude' on 'reliability' grounds right now.

This was the heart of the 'loophole' Allison (?) dug up - there was no homologation date, so they're 'free' to develop during the season. (Up to their token limit).

Now, that they're only allowed 4 PU's (not 5 this year) for the entire season seems a little 'tight', but they'll figure it out..... It's meant to be hard!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Renault's MD today fired shots at Red Bull and Adrian Newey. I think the partnership won't last beyond this season.

 

Thank God Allison found the loophole or it would have been even worse with the constructor's championship pretty much decided after a couple of races, again

Regarding Whiting, the sooner he goes IMO ...

 

It's was a failing of the regulations in banning teams that were behind for the Australian 2014 GP from catching up for any future races.

They have limited tokens with limited scope and almost no way to properly test.

Source? I'm not aware of any recent reliability changes.

About the only creativity we get to see these days is in document reading and interpretation.

Hallelujah to that

It amazes me how much focus there is on cars, teams and drivers being qualified to the their jobs yet there seems far less attention and training given to those who interpret and implement the rules.

 

Yes - this is going to be fun!

Renault hits back at Red Bull 'lies'

 

My spider senses are tingling .... I feel a Sniff Petrol feature article on Red Bull/Renault is imminent

 

They should quit moaning and concentrate on doing the real work of sorting out the issues. RB haven't done anything wrong. Renault have built a crap PU. Simples.

 

Given the discrepancy in the power output levels, it will take more tokens to make the engines perform on par with Merc than the teams are allowed.

If the teams were down 10,20,30 HP they could use the tokens and achieve pairity.
Given that they seem to be down way more than this kind of delta, the tokens don't provide enough relief to do a lot of good.

 

They haven't so far and you'd think that they'd have gotten it done in the preseason.

 

I"d like know what specifically it is that Merc has done so well with the engine that the others cannot. I know the seperated turbo is one thing, but is it the engine itself or is it the electronics and mapping that use the stored energy more efficiently and allow the Merc guys additional ERS power. I mean the estimates from what I've read are somewhere between 40 to 60HP difference. That's a lot. I have hard time believing it's like the old days where one person had a better cam design or something like that.

What is the difference? I'd really like to understand just where or how or why the Renault engine is failing.

Also... I guess I can't blame RB for complaining. You've basically been told that for the second year you have zero... literally zero chance of winning and maybe zero chance of a podium unless something bad happens to the competition. That's a tough pill to swallow in a business that defines ultra competition.

 

Let's face it, Red bull won 4 championships despite having renault engines, not because they had them....since 1997 Renault has never had a top engine again..period.
Also trhje first tme thay stoped everyone from keep developing theyr engines was when Ferrari had the best package, by the end of 2006, and that alowed Merc to catch them, becaus ebefore they where miles away!! Now, we can see that Ferrari improved a lot from last year, and Renault simply didn't. They made a crappy engine and they should acept that, shut up and make a better one.

 

Of course, nobody wants to take the blame. I remember that back in the day BMW quite often complained about the Williams chassis. And even at Ferrari the chassis guys sometimes blame the engine guys and vice versa.

But anyway, this is a dirty move from Red Bull. They get the engines for free, most probably even they´re getting paid for using them, so if you don´t like them STFU and buy a Mercedes. Oh, they won´t want to sell, then buy Ferrari. Oh, won´t sell either, so STFU and use Renault.

 

Not fair.

The Renault engine was the best suited for blown diffusers (ironically this begun as a collateral effect of their lack of reliability, they had to burn fuel when off-throttle to cool the engine before FIA allowed them an unfreeze to catch up and fixed the problem). Also, at the end of the NA Formula it had fewer cooling requirements, so it was easier for Adrian Newey to do a good aero and look even smarter, and had less fuel consumption. It was low on power, but with those restrictive rules the difference was not really a problem.

 

That's as maybe, and a completely different debate......

Where I said I believed you were mistaken was;

I'm pretty sure that's not true. They can introduce new units this season.

As to whether they have enough tokens to make up the deficit, I believe they do - If they can get it right - you better not homologate something that costs many tokens only to find it doesn't work!

For example, my reading of the famous 'table' is that they could switch to Mercs (& Pete's much loved ) "split turbo" for no more than 5 tokens......OTOH, there may be smarter ways to use said tokens.... It's making these guys *think* rather than just 'trying it'.....

I'm kinda enjoying it!

The Viz suggested this long ago - 'We' should ask the FIA to release an 'overview' (at least) of where these guys have used their tokens...... Would make interesting reading, to me anyway.

Cheers,
Ian

Cheers,
Ian

 

If their engines are like the rest of their cars, I now see where the problem lies. If you can't stand the heat.....

Video: British tourist captures moment car melts in the sun during heatwave - Telegraph